HD Camcorder recommendations? (upto ?450 price range)

[hudson]

I'm in the market for my first camcorder. I figured I would go down the High Definition route for future proof reasons and that all TVs here are HDTVs.

I don't want to spend too much, but I'm williing to spend upto abround £450. Any cheaper recommendations would be ace

I want something pretty small(ish) and sleek looking. Something that's quick(ish) and easy to get captured video on the computer or DVD.

There seems to be 4 media types: HDD, Memory card, DVD and miniDV.
I'm really unsure which is best.

One camera I've been looking at is the Sony HDR-SR10E. It's out of my price range in most retail places, but I'm able to get it for a bit less than the average retail price as I work for Sony. However, I'm scared I maybe missing other alternatives and hope someone with a bit of knowlegde and experience can help me choose something.

Cheers.

[EDIT] Oops, got a feeling this may be in the wrong forum?

[Widegoat]

http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/showthread.php?t=86448

There's some good info in that thread - but the price ranges are slightly higher - depending on what you can save by being a Sony employee - you might find something decent.

[hudson]

thanks Widegoat. Turns out, I suddenly wnet rogue and decided to buy a Panasonic HDC-SD9. Seemed to get pretty decent reviews, plus it was just under 400 quid. This will be my cam for my Japan trip

[angelox]

hoolak, tell us are your getting on with that after you after a proper mess around - was interested in this as well for some HD video recording in the future but its a lot of money to set down. Ty ^^

[hudson]

I will do mate. Delivery is going to take between 2-8 days though. Hopefully it's 2.

Whilst it sounds like it does a good job at performing, I have to say the coke can size of it is cute as...

Sorry about the dude in a suit

[charlesr]

I was going to say, unless you have an uber powerful PC, don't get an HD camcorder. Too late though.

I have the SD1. If you need any help / a shoulder to cry on, let me know.

[charlesr]

I may as well get going with some tips.

It records as avchd, and the structure on the memory card will look just like a bluray disc. The actual files are .m2ts or .m2t (mpeg 2 transport stream). Choose a folder where you want to keep your "files for checking and editing" and use the software supplied to scrape everything off the card, normally into a date of scrape folder within that folder. If you only copy the .m2ts files off the card, then some apps won't be able to do anything with them i.e. they need to import the full structure, pretending it's a bluray disc. Things like Ulead 11.5 with the HD patch will now read the .m2ts files.

If you have a ps3, then the supplied software will burn bluray info to DVDR which you can play in the ps3. Easy.

No idea if you can stream the basic files to the ps3 though.

I only have a 360, so I use ulead to edit and convert to either WMV-HD (if I want to retain surround sound info) or "mp4/h.264/aac" if stereo is good enough. This will take FOREVER (unless you have an IBM Z10 to play with). But I can then stream them via the zune app (I don't have a zune btw) to the 360 and they look spiffing.

In high light conditions, you will jizz yourself over the picture quality. In low light/indoors, it won't much better than a normal SD camcorder. Always turn on the lights!!!

I've gotta go and eat. But if you need help, post here and PM me in case I don't notice. There is total confusion about what to do with this stuff on the net. Useful advice takes hours to find.

[hudson]

Cheers Charlesr. Do you like you camcorder? I look forward to getting stressed out with getting my footage onto a PC. How long does it takes to get video footage off the cam/SD and onto a DVD to watch at good quality? Can you give me some rough examples?

I'm new to camcorders, but I'd one day like to sit down and fiddle about with editing... artistically, if I can, creating some footage to go along to my music that I make. Will working with this format be time consuming or a hair pulling out experience?

Maybe I've jumped in head first. But I'm willing to fight!

Oh, I have both a PS3 and 360. I have a laptop with Core Duo T7500 @2.20GHz, 2GB RAM or something or other

[Mr Ono]

I've had the Canon HV20 for almost a year now. It does 720p/1080i only but I really like the fact it records onto normal mini-dv tapes.

I haven't got a BD burner yet so just keep them on the tapes like I did with my SD recordings until I decide to burn them.

Bit chunky, but reliable and you may be able too pick up cheap.

[charlesr]

For comparison, I have an athlon dual core 3800+ 2.2 with 2GB Ram.

Getting the stuff off the card is pretty quick for such a large card (I presume yours will have a large and fast SDHC card). Burning it to DVD in bluray format is quite literally a direct burn - avchd is essentially the same structure as bluray. So there's no conversion. This should all be very quick and you'll be watching it on the PS3 in no time. You can also playback via the camera on hdmi or component and it looks superb.

Before I forget, please let me know what panasonic software comes with it (perhaps HDWriter, but which version).

If you want to burn it to DVDs that can be played on normal DVD players, the version of HDWriter that came with mine 1.0E cannot do this. Newer versions of Nero are avchd acredited, so can both understand the .m2ts files and burn them to regular DVD (down-conversion process, so not too slow). It comes out pretty well.

For editing and conversion, I use Ulead/Corel Videostudio 11.5-HD Patch. It's basic, but does everything I need and understands the format properly. It's also cheap.

Codecs: OMG minefield. If you want to playback the raw .m2ts files in mediaplayer or whatever, you'll need CoreAVC Codec. It's £8 or something. It's a very powerful software based decoder. If you don't have this, you can use Nerovision, but it will jerk around like crazy probably (although worth trying first in case your laptop is up to the job). Even when you do get that codec, it might only work in medaiplayerclassic in proper colours WMP looks all purple to me which suggests it's not noticing the codec.

If you do get the codec, make sure you tick "preferred decoder" in the options and if you get funny tearing effects, also choose the deinterlace method of your choice e.g. blend. Also when playing back in mediaplayer classic, you may need to go to view/options/external filters and find the coreavc one and click "prefer". Woooo. None of this would be a problem if you had an uber power PC and Nero, but hey. Maybe someone else on the interweb will search and find this and it help them too.

As for the camera, I love it. It's super small, really fast to power on. Really fast to close up as well when toddler is veering towards the lens with fingers too. The photos it takes are pants though.

General concept stuff imho: The thing with taking videos is that it takes time to discard the rubbish ones. Flicking through photos is easy. You can instantly tell if it's good or naff and delete. Videos, you have to watch all the way through to find the good bit. And then editing out the good bit takes time. However, I've only just finished perfecting a system for keeping my photos in order, so I'll now be starting work on videos so hopefully will catch up on that too some time

You'll also need a second battery. Expensive.... If you can't find one, let me know and I'll dig out where I got mine from.

[hudson]

Thanks alot, Charlesr. That all sounds like excellent detailed information. Just what I'll need. Appreciated. The siwftness of burning and playing on PS3 sounds ace.

I think the battery I will need to get will be the Panasonic VW-VBG260? About a 100 quid.

[charlesr]

Sounds different from mine, so can't help you there.

[hudson]

Quite possible. The supplied battery, accroding to the PDF manual is a VW-VBG130 (actual recording time=1h10m). The one I mentioned above is the next size up (actual recording time 2h10m). Wow, that's some serious power suckage.

[charlesr]

Ah yeah, the 130 is the one I have. I have a couple. When you say "next size up".... Physically or capacity? On the SD1, the battery is inside, so no chance of using anything physically larger. The SD cards suck batteries as does the screen (there's no viewfinder).

[hudson]

Yes, I meant capacity.