LCD Input Lag

[PhilG]

I'm looking to buy a new 40"-42" LCD TV in the next few weeks and I'm currently favouring the new Philips 42PFL9703 which from user tests over on AVF seems to have an input lag of around 30-50ms.

I play a lot of Gears of War, and will be playing Left 4 Dead and possibly COD4.

I know these things are subjective, but as I cannot easily test the Philips at present due to the location of my nearest dealer, I wonder if anyone here can offer any advice as to whether I'm likely to notice 30-50ms of input lag on the above games?

[charlesr]

Get a TV with VGA input (presuming you have a 360). Then there's little processing to be done so lag will be gone if you turn all the colour enhancement rubbish off.

[briareos_kerensky]

As you said, it's subjective.
I play on S-PVA LCD monitor and never really experienced any problem with lag (my real world lag figures are just slightly better that the Philips you mentioned), but I'm not a big fan of FPS so I can't really tell...no probs with Wipeout HD and shoot-em-ups, however.

[charlesr]

I suppose I should try answering the question. The only things I have problems with over component are rhythm action games. Mine is 90ms I think. I don't think you'll notice. Not much you can do about it though if you do (apart from using VGA). 30-50 isn't too bad.

[PhilG]

Thanks guys! All of that is great news

Charles, is there a particular reason why VGA would be better than Component? I ask because they're both analogue signals and presumably have to undergo a conversion to digital for display on the panel (so I would have expected HDMI or DVI to offer the least lag).

Also, would a VGA signal be okay over 8 metres? My 360 is in the half-cellar under my stairs (silence is bliss) so the cables run under the lounge floorboards.

The Philips has a VGA connection, but only accepts 720p, although if I recall correctly most if not all 360 games are only rendered at up to 720p anyway, and then scaled internally to 1080p. If that's the case then the Philips has likely got a better scaler than the 360 and so should do at least as good a job.


Briareos, if you can play Wipeout HD and shoot-em-ups on a similar latency panel then that's good enough for me.

[charlesr]

VGA is output at exact resolution, without any overscan. The conversion that takes the most time is the scaling from whatever the source is to the resolution of the screen. If you remove that step then it's a lot quicker. My TV is 1024x768 (42" plasma monitor), so I set the 360 to output that. HDMI and component presume overscan (I think) and so has to spend time thinking about how best to remap what's displayed on each pixel.

At least that's how I understand it. Sorry if I'm talking toss.

I demoed 1080p Bravias and both the 1080p and 768p versions of my plasma and decided I could only tell the difference between them when sat next to the screen and at viewing distance (6') it was fine. The price difference at the time was enormous, so the decision was pretty easy.

[Lyris]

I'm looking to buy a new 40"-42" LCD TV in the next few weeks and I'm currently favouring the new Philips 42PFL9703 which from user tests over on AVF seems to have an input lag of around 30-50ms.

I play a lot of Gears of War, and will be playing Left 4 Dead and possibly COD4.

I know these things are subjective, but as I cannot easily test the Philips at present due to the location of my nearest dealer, I wonder if anyone here can offer any advice as to whether I'm likely to notice 30-50ms of input lag on the above games?

It's not a case of if you'll notice it, it's a case of when. When I first got my own TV (a 2006 Sony), input lag wasn't at the top of my priority list. I played FPS games on it for years and the experience never felt 100% right, no matter how alert I was at the time.

Then I received another TV for review and noticed that suddenly, I had got a lot better at games like Halo 3 and could actually do things like throw grenades in a straight line. The game felt like it was running at a higher frame rate too, even although it wasn't (and the TV wasn't doing anything to make it seem like it was).

So, I measured my own TV (http://tft.vanity.dk) and found that it was delaying everything by 45ms. A number so small that most of us would scoff at it, but one that can really do damage for games.

A lot of the new Sonys actually have input lag figures which are basically non-existent, though.

[PhilG]

Thanks Lyris. I don't suppose from your work over on HDTVtest you've any idea about the lag on the new Sony W4500? That's the other contender on my list. I'd expect it to be in the region of almost none, like the W4000, but you never know...

[Brad]

What Charles said. The Donkey Kong bongo game is completely unplayable on my LCD whereas everything else seems fine.

[Lyris]

Thanks Lyris. I don't suppose from your work over on HDTVtest you've any idea about the lag on the new Sony W4500? That's the other contender on my list. I'd expect it to be in the region of almost none, like the W4000, but you never know...

I'm supposed to be getting sent one of those this week so will let you know! But the reviews will actually be at AVForums.com from now on.

[PhilG]

Cool! I'll await that review then

[Psyduck]

Had a quick go at testing the lag on my sony 32w4000 using rock band and got 35ms lag, so presumably it's actually 32ms, ie 2 frames. Have to say I haven't noticed it at all, though as a lover of streetfighter I'm a bit embarassed to admit it. if you're really serious about games you'll need 0ms but I can accept the compromise