Original XBox compatible USB memory stick + additional cable question

[Link83]

Hmm, well as far as I understood it the booting process to get to the MS dash is different on a softmodded machine, which could be affecting the memory card formatting.

There is no code like that on my packaging. The closest thing I can see is this code below the barcode:-
80-56-04050-2048

I did use it in a PC before using it on the Xbox, but Windows didnt format it automatically as you suggested, as it already came formatted as FAT16. I have formatted it myself a few times though, mainly just testing if FAT16 or FAT32 made any difference to drive speed.

FAT32 is closer to the FATX format used by the Xbox, so it probably gives the Xbox a better chance of recognising the drive initially. If the Xbox recognises the USB drive as a memory card then it automatically formats it as FATX when you first use it - at least thats what happened to mine. However, it will only show up as a memory card after a reboot, since the first time you use it the Xbox is just formatting the drive and it wont be properly recognised.

Will try to see what XBMC says its formatted as later tonight, but would assume it will be FATX as otherwise it shouldn't work as a memory card.

...and wow! never got around to using DreamKey 3 since I havent had dial up in years

[^Katsu]

You both have confused me to hell and back

But here is all I know: When you put the usb in when the original dash is active, it will tell you if the card is not formatted and then you can format if required/possible. It will do this regardless of whether the console is modded or not I think, I have all flavours and never had an issue..

When the USB is formatted to XBOX the PC will not recognise it unless you use a special program like Explorer 360 iirc (to read and transfer the files)?
Nearly drove me sane trying it every other way to no avail, once I used that it was simplez.

If you already have a modded/soft modded dash like unleash etc, you can just drop files onto the USB once it is formatted via FTP or the file manager as it shows up as an additional drive.

Hope that helps?

[fallenangle]

Turned out your idea was a good one but I've had some VERY weird results.

Used both sticks with one of my untouched PAL XBoxes and ******** me if they weren't both recognised immediately. Great start as the 2GB one wasn't recognised at all by the modded ones.

First I tried copying to the 1GB stick a big Morrowind save (270+ blocks). Although it started OK less than halfway through I had a 'Copy Failed' warning, the memory card light switched off and the XBox could no longer detect the stick. I unplugged and replugged it in a got a 'Damaged' MU warning but on powering off and rebooting the stick was re-recognised.

The Morrowind save on it was shown as corrupt so I erased the whole of the memory and again it stopped being recognised. Rebooted and tried some fresh saves both too/from and it has worked perfectly since. Guessing that it has been correctly formatted as FATX now but I'm still a bit wary of it.

I repeated what I'd done with the 2GB stick and everything seemed to be going the same way until I tried to copy that same Morrowind save. Repeated failures and I discovered the same applied to any of my other saves bigger than about 50 blocks. Most of the smaller size saves worked fine both to/from but I did have the occasional failure even with these.

In other words the 2GB stick is highly unreliable and therefore pretty useless.

Have you tried your 2GB one with larger game saves? I'd be interested to hear your results.

I'm going to look at the sticks using the XBox File Manager later to see if a). they're both now recognised and b). how/if they've been formatted and c). see if I can save/copy to/from the 1GB one on either modded machine.

But why, particularly the 2GB one, behaves like this is beyond my understanding.

EDIT

I looked at both sticks using XBMC Game Save manager and after using them in the unmodded PAL XBox (circa Sept 2002 version) and indeed both have now been reformatted to FATX. Why the modded machines hadn't reformatted them earlier, leaving the both as FAT16, is another issue.

The IGB drive has behaved itself without any problem since the reformat. But the 2GB one just won't accept larger game saves, failed copy/crashes and refuses to be recognised unless you reboot or return to the main menu and plug into another port. If you try to swap ports when on the memory card screen you get a damaged card warning using an unmodded Xbox and the equivalent when using a modded XBMC one.

I've tried both drives in four different XBoxes, one chipped, one softmodded and two plain PAL ones with identical results.

I wonder what would happen if I got somebody to reformat the 2GB to FAT32 before use. I've been looking at XBox-Scene for info about this and it seems, as you stated, that FAT32 formatted devices appear to be more XBox compatable than FAT16. But would that really make a difference reformatting from FAT32 to FATX rather from FAT16?

[Link83]

Sorry to have confused you Katsujinken, simply put fallenangle is just trying to find a USB flash drive that is compatible with the original Xbox, since not all USB flash drives work.

You are right that Xplorer360 is the best program to use to access the USB flash drive on a PC (I tried the Xbox Action Replay software as well as mentioned on the previous page, and it was terrible) but since fallenangle doesnt have a PC its not really much use. This also means fallenangle cant FTP to the Xbox to transfer files, which is the main reason a compatible USB flash drive is necessary.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Glad to hear you got at least one flash drive working fallenangle

When I first tried the flash drive in my Xbox I tested transferring a large save file. The only save file that I had that was over 50 blocks was the Splinter Cell softmod/linux exploit (I have a modchipped Xbox where the chip can be enabled and disabled manually, and I had previously transferred this save file by FTP so I could copy it to a memory card to softmod a friends Xbox)

I tested it again last night and once again it transferred just fine. IIRC the save file is 462 blocks (466 blocks with configuration file) and it copied across with absolutely no problems. I even erased the entire card and tried again and it still worked fine. I also turned the Xbox off and on and the save was still there - I really could not replicate what you described

Oh, and it does appear as a FATX formatted drive in XBMC.

I had a few possible thoughts though about why your 2GB drive is not working:-

- Are these drives being formatted on an unmodded Xbox with the latest dashboard? (5960) I only ask as I guess its possible Microsoft improved the FATX formatting ability in the later dashboard revisions (Just a guess here, but it is possible that Microsoft updated the 'formatting part' of the dashboard, especially if they ever had future plans to release an official larger capacity memory card - although we would be unlikely to know if this was the case)

If it isnt the latest dashboard you could try updating it with one of the later Xbox games like Halo 2. However, I am not sure if the 'Erase' option in the Xbox save management screens actually formats the drive, or it it just deletes all the save files. If it formats the drive thats great, but it it doesnt you may need to use a PC to format the drive as FAT16 or FAT32 before trying again.

- Are you positive your SanDisk flash drive is genuine? I only ask because you mentioned that on your packaging the last part of the model number - 'E11' - was missing, which I thought was quite strange. SanDisk uses a regional suffix on all their model numbers:-

E10, E11, E11M, E21, etc is for Europe
A11, A21, A31 etc is for the USA
J31A, J61, J95, is for Japan

...and so on. SanDisk does this for all their products (I noticed it when researching SD cards) So the fact that your packaging is missing the regional suffix letters entirely suggests it might not be quite legitimate?

Its possible that the initial FAT16/FAT32 format could make a difference, but to be honest if the drive is already being recognised and formatted as FATX by the Xbox I dont think the initial format type will make any difference.

<EDIT>
Just looking at my drive carefully and I think I noticed the manufacturing batch code you previously mentioned. Mine says:-

BE0806KYPB MADE IN CHINA SDCZ4-2048

(The production date is 10 months prior to my purchase)
The 'E11' model code I was previously referring to is on the drives packaging near the barcode, so maybe we got crossed wires?

[smouty]

Don't forget that 2Gb was a lot for a MU when the Xbox came out. Most of the cards I tried successfully have been 1Gb or less.
The existing format of the card is irrelevant as an unmodded Xbox will always try to reformat a MU if it is not FATX.
A PC will always recognise the device but won't be able to read it as by default they do not understand FATX. This is where the driver supplied with Action Replay (hacking the .inf file) or Xport360/360 Explorer are used.

[fallenangle]

Link83 - I had a look at the packaging and indeed it does have the - E11 suffix on that so the drives we're using are essentially identical. Which begs the question as to why my one acts differently.

There's also the mystery of why neither was reformatted to FATX by the chipped or softmodded XBoxes I tried them with. This is particularly true for the IGB one which was always recognised unlike the 2GB.

The chipped XBox is my main games playing machine and has had more Live Enabled (5960 dash updated) games played on it than any other. In fact before I modded it and softmodded two others I deliberately ran through Hitman Blood Money's Live options even though not connected just to ensure I had the 5960 update. Totally uneccessary but I was following the softmodding instructions I have to the letter.

However, there is a possibility that the older unmodded PAL XBox which apparently successfully reformatted the drives to FATX hasn't been updated with the 5960 dash. I can't remember the last time I actually used it to play a game, so I'll look into that.

But the fact is both cards were eventually shown as formatted to FATX and the 1GB works and the 2GB one behaves in the odd way described when trying to make larger saves.

Smouty's smaller capacity card works fine using the same USB/XBox cable to the same four machines (as said 2 modded/two untouched PAL ones) so I don't think this problem can possibly be hardware related.

BTW at no point did the PAL machine ask about reformatting the drive. I just used the delete option to ensure there was nothing from my previous tests then started copying saves across and back. The IGB worked fine after an initial hiccup but the 2GB one repeatedly failed so I just stuck with smaller save files until even one of those failed to copy.

Later when I looked at them using the XBMC Gave Save Manager I found that as I'd hoped both had been reformatted to FATX by what I'd done.

[Link83]

Hmm, well mine has the batch number:-
BE0806KYPB
and yours is:-
BE0910NSVN
Which should mean that my drive was made in February 2008 and yours in March 2009, so there is over a year difference in which SanDisk could have changed some of the components used internally. Also yours has the code 'NSVN' whereas mine is 'KYPB' which could denote different manufacturing factories? They might even use different brands of flash chips? Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any way to open the drive to check without destroying the casing in the process! (If you had a PC I would have suggested using 'USBView' to check what the USB vendorID and productID was)

The Xbox does not give any warning that it is formatting the drive, that seems to be normal - I just waited a minute or two after first turning it on to give the Xbox chance to format the drive. Then I went into the save management screen - at which point the orange activity light stops glowing, indicating the drive has been 'ejected' by the Xbox. Finally, after a reboot it appears as a memory card formatted as FATX.

It formats as FATX fine on my modchipped Xbox (Xecuter3CE) but I disabled the modchip first by holding down the power button for a few seconds which allows me to access the original dashboard as though it was a completely unmodded machine. I assume the problem with FATX formatting arises when you load the MS dash from within a homebrew dashboard first, such as EvoX etc? (I read somewhere that a softmodded Xbox always starts to load some of the softmod files first, even if you are going straight to the MS dash)

If you can I would try reformatting on the unmodded Xbox with a 5960 dashboard to see if that makes any difference, although I guess you might need to reformat the drive as FAT16/FAT32 first to make the Xbox reformat it as FATX, or perhaps you could transfer a few of your large saves across to see if you can 'corrupt' it so that the Xbox will be forced to reformat the drive?...If that makes sense.

At least you have the 1GB drive working Hopefully that will be large enough for most of your saves?

[fallenangle]

Thanks for all your help with this, much appreciated.

Good suggestion about updating the umodded PAL XBox because yes it did have the old dash. I just hadn't noticed - ran a Live Enabled game and it updated perfectly. Unfortunately no resolution to the problem.

Using that newly updated machine the 1GB drive still works fine. Deleted everything on it and transferred back and forth without a problem just to test it. The 2GB drive though - still the same trouble.

I'm interested in your comment about the orange light though. With my one the only time it went out completely is when the copy save was being made and failed. The stick suddenly wasn't detected any more forcing a reboot.

But the glowing orange light on drive (what an annoyingly bright and distracting colour BTW) throbs brighter/darker all the time when it is being detected. Is this the same with your one?

I'm just wondering if after all this the hassle is simply due to the 2GB drive being faulty. I've no way to test it myself but I can get it to somebody with a PC. Would they be able to reformat it to FAT16 or 32 without any trouble and the see if it works as it should?

[Link83]

Yeah the orange light surprised me when I bought the drive! I am used to it now though, and its not so bad. The light seems to follow this pattern:-

- Orange light turns on and off quickly - drive is being accessed (files being written/deleted)
- Orange light slow pulsing glow - drive connnected but not being used
- No light - drive ejected/disconnected (Happens if you use the 'Safely Remove Hardware' section on a PC before disconnecting the drive)

I use Windows XP Pro SP2, so cant say how easy it is to format the drive on other operating systems, but on my PC I just did the following to reformat the drive:-

- Right click the USB drive in 'My Computer' (Make sure to select the correct drive)
- Select 'Format'
- Select the File system - FAT(FAT16) or FAT32
- Make sure 'Quick Format' is unticked
- Click 'Start'
- A warning box will pop up asking if your sure you want to format, click 'OK'
- A progress bar shows you how long is left, followed by a pop up box saying 'Format Complete' when done, just click 'OK' to close it
- Done!
(Just remember to double check you have selected the correct drive before reformatting!)

You should be able to copy files across normally then, so you can test the drive to see if its working properly.

Glad to hear you were able to update the MS dash on the unmodded Xbox, but please keep in mind that the dashboard revision was just a random thought I had - it could be completely irrelevant

Its probably just pot luck if any given USB drive works (Unless we could take the drives apart and determine what parts are used) Especially since we both have the exact same model of drive but one works perfectly and the other doesnt. I can only imagine SanDisk revised the internal components, in which case I dont think anybody could recommend any model of USB drive any more, because every new batch could be different Apologies if after all this you still cant get it to work, since I feel slightly responsible for you buying that model.

<EDIT> I managed to find the 'CheckUDisk' program recommended on the Xbox Linux page here:-

http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Xbox_USB_Compatibility_List#Notes

Since the download link was broken I managed to get it here:-

http://www.mediafire.com/?cmkbbaeejza

My drive shows this information:-

Name: Cruzer Micro (USB2.0)

Logic Driver: I:\

VID&PID: Vid_0781&Pid_5151
Speed: high speed

VendorID: SanDisk
ProductID: Cruzer
Product Revision: 7.01

Vendor Description: SanDisk
Product Description: Cruzer Micro
Serial Number: 0266810F2381119B

Guess my drive is revision 7.01, I wonder what yours is?

[fallenangle]

I might be able to find out. When I find the time I'm going to talk nicely to my very tech minded 14 year old nephew to have a look at it/reformat it to FAT32 for me.

Unfortunately I have to report some similar problems with the 1GB drive yesterday when copying virtually everything copyable I have on my XBoxes to it. Strangely it wasn't the largest files that caused the trouble.

Anyway eventually copied most of what I wanted to it as a master save backup and it appears all OK. I'll add more if I run out of official MU space again but otherwise I'm not touching it. I've never had any trouble copying back from the drive so I'm confident it's as safe as any backup can be.

Presently though I'm fully occupied trying to sort out the UnleashX dash
on my Xecuter 2.6 chipped machine. It is displaying or rather not displaying properly with a bug that was supposed to have been eliminated years ago. Of course, this being a techy matter and therefore devoid of apparent logic to novices like myself, my softmodded XBoxes, using a much earlier UnleashX build, do not have the problem.

Nothing like this is ever simple it seems.

Thanks again.


EDIT

Just had a brain wave over the weekend. I was 'scientifically' testing the flash drives I have and noticed something that maybe siginificant.

Smouty's 128MB one is written too very much slower than either of the USB 2.0 SanDisk drives. It is at least two to three times less.

That made think it might just be an older USB 1 or 1.1 type and that could be a significant factor in why it works 100% reliably and the other two either don't (2GB) or can't be completely relied upon (1GB).

Further to this it eventually occurred to me that I hadn't asked about one possible important difference between Link83 and my Xbox(es) - the HDD! I'm using the standard retail 5GB HDD in all my machines but I'm hoping that Link83 is going to tell me that he replaced his with a bigger, better one obviously happy writing at the higher speeds the USB 2.0 sticks appear to induce.

[Link83]

Further to this it eventually occurred to me that I hadn't asked about one possible important difference between Link83 and my Xbox(es) - the HDD! I'm using the standard retail 5GB HDD in all my machines but I'm hoping that Link83 is going to tell me that he replaced his with a bigger, better one obviously happy writing at the higher speeds the USB 2.0 sticks appear to induce.

Actually I do have a bigger, faster hard drive, mine is a 7,200RPM 160GB Western Digital drive, and the stock Xbox drive is 5,400RPM 8GB (Western Digital) or 10GB (Seagate).

However, i'm pretty sure this difference will not be having any affect on the compatability/drive speed. For one reason, the Xbox apparently cannot make use of the extra speed my hard drive is capable of:-

http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Xbox_hardware_modifications#Limitations_and_information_to_know_before_you_start

(The sentence is worded a bit badly, but hopefully you get the idea)

In addition the Xbox controller ports are all USB1.1:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Proprietary_connectors_and_formats

USB2.0 flash drives are backwards compatible with USB1.1 and just lower their spec/speed when used in a USB port that only supports USB1.1 speeds, like the Xbox.

Its more likely that the SanDisk flash drives use a better designed/later produced USB controller chip or flash chip that is better at maintaining maximum USB1.1 speeds all the time. The 128MB flash drive probably uses a much older USB controller/flash chip combination which likely cannot reach/maintain maximum USB1.1 speeds.

Even at full bandwidth USB1.1 is only capable of reaching 12Mbit/s (1.5MByte/s) and stock Xbox hard drives with the standard ATA cable can reach speeds many times higher than this. I can't find exact figures, but I know that the stock Xbox hard drive is actually already 'speed limited' by the standard ATA (ATA-33) cable Microsoft used, which basically limits the stock hard drives maximum speed to 33MByte/s:-

http://www.llamma.com/xbox/ShoppingCart/ATA100.htm

...so the hard drive is not the bottleneck.

So nice theory, but i'm afraid I dont think the hard drive is the reason. Sorry!

[fallenangle]

I thought I was being so clever but thanks for the interesting explanation.

But whilst I'm wrong about the HDD and the much slower write speed of the 128MB stick probably isn't a direct factor in it's reliability, the older USB controller/flash chip you mention might be.

I was searching for a supplier of older USB 1.0/1.1 flash drives to test out my previous theory but that might still be worth pursuing because they will also most likely have those older less efficient chips inside too.

Smouty mentioned that he'd found smaller capacity sticks tend to be more likely to work, confirmed by some of the comments in the working wiki list. But It might not be their capacity that matters but the age of their technology - you don't find many <1GB flash drives now do you? Smaller capacity = older technology = possibly better XBox compatibility.

Unfortunately USB 1.0/1.1 only flash drives now seem as rare as hens teeth. The one place I found still selling them was asking silly money probably because of the custom stainless steel casing.

Still nothing apart from the guessed at batch component variation so far explains the results we've had from the, as far as we can tell, identical 2GB SanDisk stick.

[smouty]

Personally I think the working USB sticks are close in structure to official Xbox1 mem cards in some way - cylinders, heads, sectors etc or the driver has hard coded limitations of one or more of these values.

Info - http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/Xbox_...atibility_List

Interestingly a 360 FATX formatted USB stick (1Gb) didn't work on Xbox1 before or after 360 formatted it.
It was a Sandisk Cruzer Titanium which is listed as working for the 512Mb version.

[fallenangle]

It does indeed seem a lottery.

The 1GB SanDisk Cruzer Micro which I've now got everything on had a hissy fit today when transferring the final thing I wanted to archive on it for the moment: the SID v5.0 on my AID disc. I had to redo it as the copy failed and then I found it had saved over my existing older SID and Splinter Cell exploit files which I particularly want to preserve.

In the end I had to delete those files entirely and recopy the older SID/SCE saves on to it from the 128Mb smouty stick where I now keep them as master saves. This process, of course, went with out a hitch but I still don't trust that IGB SanDisk.