Original Xbox disc tray

[fallenangle]

After waiting over a month for CEX to deliver the used Crystal Xbox I ordered I received it today. Looks in good condition, no indication of ever being opened and works fine except for an intermittent problem with the disc tray.

Samsung DD: it's not sticking when closed as you might expect and I've read of others who've had problems with this, although that did happen initially. But what tends to happen now is an occasional instance of a couple of repeated re-openings when you press the button to close the drawer, disc in or not.

On other consoles, CD, DVD players etc I've long been of the opinion that this sort of thing is due to the disc tray having been 'bent' slightly out of shape by heavy handed use.

My theory is simply that the drawer does not close properly ie. the disc tray is catching somewhere or not seating home properly. Consequently the closed drawer switch (mechanical/electronic/optical?) doesn't always trip but, perversely, it does trip whatever switch reverses the eject/close mechanism. As the tray eject/close motor is still operating because the drawer didn't close fully it spits out the tray again.

As said: only a theory. I've looked elsewhere and found very little info so does anybody here really know how the Xbox tray eject/close mechanism works and whether I'm right? Whatever the case is there any solution?

[EvilBoris]

yeah it is most likely catching somewhere or is even just a little stiff on some gears hidden away in the tray mechanism so there is a tad too much resistance. I don't know what you could do about it really (you could try putting a little grease on the teeth on the side of the tray)

[speedlolita]

Mine used to do this I think, I just hit it about a bit.

[Link83]

This is possibly a different issue, but I have fixed both mine and my brothers Xbox Samsung DVD drive which both had the fault where either the drive tray would not eject, or it would not close once opened.

When I took them apart I noticed that the drive belt (black rubber band) that closes the disk tray had become a bit dusty, so I took it off and carefully cleaned it using a damp cotton bud, and then I cleaned the two 'cogs' it goes over (I could hardly believe the amount of dirt that came off the drive belt!) Then I carefully put the drive belt back on with some tweezers to try and prevent any finger sweat/grease getting on it. Since then the drive has worked flawlessly and I have had no more problems

Just for an extra bit of help I also carefully applied some "Tamiya Ceramic Grease" to the drive trays guide rail and the lazer guide rails using a small fine paintbrush (Dont use a cheap one or the bristles will fall out and stick everywhere) This did help make the drive a bit quieter as well as making the disk tray slide smoother.

I think the main issue was simply dust/dirt/grease building up on the drive belt, and that was causing it to slip and not get enough grip. This was especially a problem when the drive tray attempts to open because the drive belt must have more 'force' than the strength of the magnet at the top of the drive that holds the game disk in place, otherwise it cant break the magnetic bond and the drive wont open.

I have also read that some people found a new drive belt helped because it was tighter (and cleaner) and also some people who fitted a piece of round cardboard at the top of the drive so as to weaken the magnetic bond so the drive belt would not require as much force.

You might have a totally different problem, but I would still give the drive belt a careful look/clean if you can, it could be a related problem It might be that your drive belt is not able to completely close the tray? This could prevent there being full contact with the drive tray close switch, and so cause the drive to reopen.

Oh, and if you take the drive apart I would strongly recommend reading a good drive dissassembly guide if you have not opened a CD/DVD drive before, because certain things might cause you some problems, such as the clips that prevent the drive tray from being fully removed, or lining up the gears/guide rail before re-inserting the disk tray (Otherwise the tray wont eject properly, even when using the 'manual release' hole, and you will need to carefully press against certain gears to open it again)

I hope that maybe helps a bit

[fallenangle]

Thanks - I was hoping somebody had taken one apart and knows how it actually works.

I don't like the news that it uses one of those 'rubber' drive belts . I've had problems with those in some other equipment I've repair/tried to repair (VCRs and CD players). Typically they've simply worn or stretched with use and keep slipping or even coming off the drive spindles. Sometimes there's some re-tensioning facility built in which helps but generally without an exact size replacement you can be certain the problem with recur at some stage.

So I hope it's not that and just dust and and grime (fag tar and sticky fingers) build up as you describe or perhaps causing the eject/close motor micro switch to stick.

I was thinking about the latter as possibility too as I had a DC laser drive which had a habit of sticking until the machine warmed up. Took it apart and amongst other things cleaned the dusty/gunged up threaded drive spindle and sticky micro switch. I then carefully applied a very small amount of, although not ideal, lubricant and the DC has worked as good as new ever since.

I don't fancy going into my new Xbox even just to clean it up. Although I've bought it as an expendable experimental test bed I really don't want to risk crocking it at this early stage over something which, so far, isn't a serious problem.

I'll see if I can clean it or do what I else can from the outside, perhaps getting some more appropriate lubricant for the runners like the one suggested too.

Edit: I asked about this on another forum and had very similar advice and also info that new Xbox DD drive bands can be found on eBay.

The lubricant recommended there for the gears and runners was to try a PTFE/Teflon based one. Not a type I've come across before and there seem to be a lot of versions: with/without silicone some described as silicone grease with PTFE/Teflon (Maplins), others as lubricant oil or grease + PFTE/Teflon, lithium or graphite. Ones designed for plumbing jobs are usually stated to be plastic friendly but even these vary in make up when listed. So not quite sure what I should go for or if it matters.

Any advice?

After doing a bit of (re)searching I was also wondering whether WD-40 might be an acceptable alternative. Being peteroleum based there are warnings about not using it with certain types of plastic though so I was wondering if anybody here knows if it's safe for this type of use.

[Link83]

I know what you mean about a re-tensioning facility, but I am pretty sure the Xbox Samsung drive does not have one I have also never seen a tray loading CD/DVD drive that does not use a drive belt(?)

I would certainly not recommend using WD40, its really meant to be used as a degreaser, not as a 'proper' lubricant. It also wont stay in place properly, and theres always a chance that it could 'splash' onto the laser lens I dont even think most WD40's are very plastic friendly...

I use Tamiya Ceramic Grease because it is purposefully designed for use on plastic/metal gears (For use in RC model cars) Its also great for greasing N64 analog sticks, which is actually where I got the idea for using it from - mmmonkey's N64 analog stick repair guide:-

http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/nintendo/n64cont2.htm

You dont need to use very much at all, you only need a light coating.

I have also read that some people use/recommend 'White Lithium Grease' as apparently that is the type often used by the original drive manufacturers - however there are quite a few different types and since I didnt want to get the wrong one I just went for the Tamiya Ceramic Grease.

There are a few different places that stock new drive belts, although unforunately I cant remember the exact size the Xbox Samsung drive used. When I last looked new drive belts were usually quite pricey once you factored in postage from the USA (I think they were around £7) and I often saw used Xbox consoles for around £10 inc postage (console only auctions) or old Samsung PC drives for £5 inc postage (The Samsung SD-616 model uses the same size drive belts, and the SD-616T model can actually be modified to work in an Xbox itself!) so for me it was not worthwhile to buy just a drive belt...although having had a quick look on ebay there does now appear to be quite a few drive belts for 360 drives for around £3.00 which are probably the same size

I would highly recommend tinkering about with an old PC CD/DVD drive first if you can. My brother had three old CD drives which he was going to throw away (Since they were not worth the price of postage) So I practiced taking apart and tinkering with one of them first. Also theres always a chance the old drive might use the same size drive belt used in the Xbox drive

Good luck if you decide to have a go at repairing it

[fallenangle]

I must have chucked out 4 or 5 old VCRs without harvesting potentially useful parts like drive belts but, at the time, you can't know they're going to be useful in the future. I've not taken apart a DVD drive like this before but there are online tutorials for fiddling about with the Xbox and, when it matters, I'm very methodical when dismantling electrical stuff.

Thanks for the info on the spray. I've been asking around and researching a bit and I've excluded a few of the PTFE/Teflon ones due to their other ingredients. Even the 'pure' ones often don't specify what the PTFE/Teflon is suspended in ie, whether it's a petroleum or plastic safe synthetic oil.

Most of those with PTFE/Teflon say they're plastic friendly but I've discovered, from an odd source: a SEAT servicing web site forum, that lubricant sprays with silcone, which many of the PTFE/Teflon sprays also include, aren't recommended for use on or near electrical connectors/cicuit boards. Apparently it has very high electrical resistance (dielectric) characteristics which might lead to "issues", the woolly term quoted on the site, if it gets somewhere it wasn't meant to be.

I know this may not be relevant for the uses we're discussing here and such a product would probably work fine but I think it prudent not to use one with silicone either.

Which is a very long way of saying that it looks like a 'pure' PTFE/Teflon spray as recommended to me elsewhere or the one you recommend are the way to go. Just have to see if I can find it at a sensible price.

As for the drive belt: as mentioned I've also been asking about this on other forums but in particular the Xbox board at AVforums. By luck it has an active thread going on Samsung DD problems on both the Xbox and XB360. One of the guys there who appears to know what he's talking about has been very helpful. Apart from directing me towards PTFE/Teflon lubricating sprays he's also posted details of the exact spec of the drive belt required.

[fallenangle]

I've been continuing my research into suitable plastic lubricants and, finally, I've found two about which I've had very quick and helpful e-mail confirmation from the manufacturers themselves.

1). Super-Lube PTFE Grease (their own formula PTFE) - made with 100% synthetic oils. Recommended by several independent sources too who also point out that it is repackaged under different brand names for, amongst other things, fishing reel lubrication.

Only problem is that Super-Lube only seems to be available in the US and importing from the one eBay seller I found will cost you ?11+ at current exchange rates.

2). Finish LIne Ceramic Grease designed for use on racing bikes - again made from 100% synthetic oils and is a mix of "Teflon/Fluorpolymers" with micro fine ceramic particles (boron nitride). This sounds very similar to the aforementioned Tamiya Ceramic Grease. However I cannot find information about Tamiya CG's other ingredients and whether it contains Teflon/PTFE or not.

The e-mail from Finish Line's customer support says it's OK for the use I described but may require thinning with their own (of course) Finish Line Wet Lubricant to get an appropriate consistency for this particular purpose.

Finish line also do a Premium Teflon/PTFE grease which is made with 100% synthetic oil too. Although I didn't get confirmation about that specifically it looks to be the same thing just without the ceramic particles,

The good news is that Finish Line products are easily found on eBay UK/US and in specialist cycle shops.

On the subject of eBay: using their search engine for PTFE or Teflon grease/sprays didn't turn up many of the products I discovered later are available through eBay but found by other search engines. This included both Super-Lube and Finish Line.

I'm sure there are other perfectly acceptable greases and sprays available if you look to specialist bike, model-making/RC, DIY shops but unless they are actually confirmed as suitable for plastics you just shouldn't use them.

I've found authorative posts on RC/railway/model-making forums that using the wrong lubricant on plastic parts, especially gears does make a difference. The types of conditions and stresses that they put them under is extreme. But if they say the wrong lube can soften the plastic and cause all manner of problems in the long term I believe them.

[Link83]

Wow, great work fallenangle, theres some really useful info there

Like you I also did some research when I first started looking for a grease for the Xbox CD/DVD drive, I also contacted Super-Lube asking which lubricant would be best for plastic gears, but unfortunately I did not hear back from them

However, Tamiya did contact me back and said their Ceramic Grease would probably be their best choice, as it is specifically designed for use on plastic gears, and because it is "light, and long lasting". I also requested an MSDS datasheet for 'Tamiya Ceramic Grease' which they kindly sent me, and although it doesnt list the exact ingredients it does say:-

MIXTURE: Base Oil, thickener and additives
INGREDIENTS AND COMPONENTS (% by mass):
Synthetic hydrocarbon above. 85
Lithium soap thickener approx. 10
Additives (solid lubricant, anti-oxidant) below 5

It also says:-

DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: Carbon oxides, Nitrogen oxides, Boron oxides, etc.

So it sounds like it probably uses Boron Nitride Ceramic particles exactly like the 'Finish Line Ceramic Grease' you already mentioned.

I also read in some forums that 'Dow Corning' make good greases, and they appear to have a huge variety available:-

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?Ne=4294963250&N=4294963045&bhcp=1&DCCD=PRODUCT&WT.svl=1&DCCT=PRODUCT

I couldnt figure out which grease would be best, and when I emailed them I got a reply back asking me to phone their UK distributor, which I didnt really fancy since distributors usually only want to deal with bulk buyers.

In the end I just thought I was probably trying too hard to find the 'perfect grease' and that I should probably just go with a grease that I already knew was plastic safe, and that was relatively easy to buy, so I went with Tamiya.

I admire your determination to find the perfect grease for the job, and enjoy reading you replies, so please keep us informed about any further 'grease candidates' you come up with, and what you decide to use in the end

(I just realised this thread probably sounds really odd to people who have not looked into different greases before! )

[gunrock]

(I just realised this thread probably sounds really odd to people who have not looked into different greases before! )

You are absolutely right there!

But this is why I love this site. There's just so much knowledge bounding about, it's truly amazing. The passion this site's members have for getting stuff "just so" is what make NTSC-UK stand out.

[smouty]

I have some of the Finish-Line stuff and might have to take my Samsung drive apart now as it has been sticking for years
I've never paid much attention to these things in the past such as using sunflower oil to lube the PS2 laser rails but then I am from an engineering background

Cheers for the info all!

[MJ]

This is possibly a different issue, but I have fixed both mine and my brothers Xbox Samsung DVD drive which both had the fault where either the drive tray would not eject, or it would not close once opened.

My old Xbox developed the issue where the draw would open, but wouldn't close unless you pushed it slightly to initiate the closing mechanism, like how most CD, DVD and Blu-ray player trays also work. I never did get round to fixing it before I sold it.

[fallenangle]

Wow, great work fallenangle, theres some really useful info there

Like you I also did some research when I first started looking for a grease for the Xbox CD/DVD drive, I also contacted Super-Lube asking which lubricant would be best for plastic gears, but unfortunately I did not hear back from them

However, Tamiya did contact me back and said their Ceramic Grease would probably be their best choice, as it is specifically designed for use on plastic gears, and because it is "light, and long lasting". I also requested an MSDS datasheet for 'Tamiya Ceramic Grease' which they kindly sent me, and although it doesnt list the exact ingredients it does say:-

It also says:-

So it sounds like it probably uses Boron Nitride Ceramic particles exactly like the 'Finish Line Ceramic Grease' you already mentioned.

I also read in some forums that 'Dow Corning' make good greases, and they appear to have a huge variety available:-

http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?Ne=4294963250&N=4294963045&bhcp=1&DCCD=PRODUCT&WT.svl=1&DCCT=PRODUCT

I couldnt figure out which grease would be best, and when I emailed them I got a reply back asking me to phone their UK distributor, which I didnt really fancy since distributors usually only want to deal with bulk buyers.

In the end I just thought I was probably trying too hard to find the 'perfect grease' and that I should probably just go with a grease that I already knew was plastic safe, and that was relatively easy to buy, so I went with Tamiya.

I admire your determination to find the perfect grease for the job, and enjoy reading you replies, so please keep us informed about any further 'grease candidates' you come up with, and what you decide to use in the end

(I just realised this thread probably sounds really odd to people who have not looked into different greases before! )

It sounds as if Tamiya CG is a lithium lubricant based product rather than Teflon/PTFE. As said it is specifically stated to be safe with plastics that's the important part.

But for anybody considering using an alternative lithium based type what my amateur researches indicate is that it is the one most commonly used as lubricating agent in those products designed for automotive/industrial purposes. These lithium based lubes may well NOT be safe with plastics as they will probably have a petroleum base. In other words unless it says it is plastic safe assume it's not.

Anyway after I'd found Super-Lube and Finish Line I looked around some more and just by chance came across this relatively recent thread in a US RC forum:-

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216662

It endorses most of what we've been talking about here and provides some good alternatives too.

Thanks for that Dow Corning link - not a site/products that came up at all in any of my wide ranging searches concerning this matter. I'll be looking at it later.

Edit: bizarrely and thanks indirectly to my brother who works for an electronics company, I was directed to yet another manufacturer whose named had never come up in any of my searches: Electrolube.

Their Electrolube Special Plastics Grease is so far the only lube stated to be specifically designed for use with plastics that I've come across and is available in size/cost suitable for the DIYer.

Available from amongst others:-

http://www.chilternconnections.co.uk/ShopProducts/Mechanical_Lubrication_Products/SPG.html

Obviously I haven't used it and know no others who have so I can't endorse it personally. I don't even know what the ingredients are except that it has that apparently important 100% synthetic base. But from the sound of the uses intended by the manufacturer it could be ideal.


EDIT:-

Finally got some FinishLine Ceramic Grease and I thought at first it might indeed be a bit too thick use as is. However after I applied a thin coating to the tray drawer runners and ratchet/gears it seems to do its job fine.

I have eventually used the suggested drive belt 'boiling' technique. Took it off (no need to go inside the XBox at all BTW), washed it in detergent and then rinsed before plunging in just boiled water for a few minutes before thorough drying on kitchen towel.

Handled only with cotton gloves and using a couple of wooden kebab skewers I refitted it (relatively easily) over the drive wheels and, yay, so far the drawer hasn't stuck since. I had a couple of re-opening incidents before I greased the drawer mechanism/runners but that seems to have cured that, so double yay.

I think I will take the precaution of buying a replacement drive belt off eBay but unless the trouble returns I won't bother fitting it.

It looks like all the advice about how to cure the problem has worked - so thanks to those concerned.

[fallenangle]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but it is a specific follow up to what we were discussing. The same crystal Xbox has barely been used since I last posted as I bought it primarily as a backup and it hasn't actually been needed. On a whim I thought I'd just fire it up this week and the repeated reopening has reappeared.Tried the belt drive reconditioning again and thought about cleaning, re-lubricating. But when I checked it was all as good as when I'd last done it. I have got it closed and working but the problem still repeats 9/10 times when I open and try to close the drawer.I'm going to dismantle the DVD drive sometime and see if I can determine whether a more permanent fix is possible. If I get anywhere I'll post again.

[smouty]

This is a common problem with the Samsung drives. There is a guide here - http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=613385

I've done this a few time on various drives and the problem has never returned on any of them