XB360 refresh rates/general newbie questions

[fallenangle]

Just set up my first (PAL) XB360 and have a few questions:

1). As it came out of the box I appear not to have any of the 'recent' updates, specifically playing games from the HDD and, less important, USB <16MB memory device support. Is there anyway, not having broadband and therefore no XB Live, I can get these updates onto my machine?

2). I was bemused to discover that, so it seems, all HD formats on a PAL XB360 are being delivered at 50Hz. Is this specific to Component connections (ie. what I'm using) or does it apply to HDMI too? What about VGA and DVI as well?

I'd always asumed that ED and HD formats were set to a universal 60Hz refresh rate. Seems barking mad to create yet another NTSC v. PAL region like difference in the standard. Reading up on it HD Ready TV sets in the UK must include both 50/60Hz support for HD formats, at least through HDMI. I just don't get why MS would decide to lock PAL XB360s to the lower speed in any case even if it is connection type dependent.

3). On a PAL machine what refresh rate is being used with region free games? If it's 50Hz is the game running 17% (16.666666%) slower too?

4). NTSC/or modded PAL original XBoxes delivers ED/HD content at 60Hz. Doesn't this means, upscaling matters aside, it is, on paper, better for 480p XBox games/other content and equally as good for 720p/1080i material like DVDs?

Have to say this about the XB360 being new to it - the people who decided on the embarrassing avatar interface should be slapped. Sorry to get a little Alan Partridge here, but that disc drawer is horrible, cheap looking and flimsy with the nastiest sounding action I've ever come across.

[dvdx2]

all my 360 games run at 1080p@60HZ (pressing the info button on tv enables that to be displayed )on screen. I think this is the standard format, so i'm not sure who told you about 360 games being output in HD @50hz.

Some Blu rays are output at 1080p@50hz, (UK/European) but i dont remember seeing an xbox gaming outputing this. I am using HDMI, but assume Component is the same.

However, I had to enable PAL60 via standard def, before i could get 'The outfit' to run in HD

[EvilBoris]

Calm down boyo, ALL content is 60Hz! The joys of this generation.

To update your xbox to the latest one you can download it on pc and do it from cd/usb

http://support.xbox.com/support/en/us/nxe/xboxlive/troubleshooting/updateconsole.aspx

[Jebus]

If you can't download the updates, they are included on game discs anyway.

If you pop a new game in, it'll almost certainly have the HDD install dash update on it, not sure if they have the USB storage update.

Another way to do it is to get a friend who has the update to put his HDD on your 360, when you boot it up and log in as him, it'll automatically update to that latest dash FW.

[fallenangle]

No PC or I'd have BB and XB Live too.

So all I have to do is get a game released since the update to play from the HDD was released and it should update the dash? Only new game I have is Forza 3 which was bundled with the console - pleased me as it was on my wish list. I'll try that but I doubt it is new enough.

Re the refresh rate matter: the XB360 is telling me it's 50Hz! I went to My XBox > System Settings > Display > 480p (default), 720p, 1080i, 1080p.

I selected 1080i as my CRT doesn't do 720p (or 1080p of course).

The screen switches to the selected format and asks you to click on Yes if you want to use it. So far so familiar. Then it switches to a screen which asks you to click on Yes if the screen, which is now stated as being 50Hz, displays correctly. It does but I don't want 50Hz so, lying, I click No. 1080i is set correctly but I'm left with no idea whether its 50Hz or 60Hz.

I tried it going back to 480p and it worked in exactly the same way.

Maybe I'm being dim but I just don't get it. Previous generations a PAL machine or game would offer you a 60Hz option with a timed test. This machine does the same in SD but switch to HD and you get this inexplicably ambiguous interogative instead.

That page is running at 50Hz, it says so, so if you can read the question why do you have a choice of answer? If you click Yes you're just confirming you can read the question doh! If you can read it and click No, you're lying.

So, presumably the best course of action is to do nothing. Pretend you can't read the page and hope that means the XB360 will set 60Hz rather than 50Hz. But why not just a simple timed test at each setting just like it is usually done?

[EvilBoris]

It's basically asking you if you can read it so it knows your TV support 50hz so it can output 50hz for old 50hz only xbox1 games.

It will never output 50hz for a 360 game or anything on the dash.

Forza 3 will give you the NXE dash (2008) with the ability to install games but not the USB storage support from last month.

[JP]

Unfortunately, there are some issues with a few 360 games and a 50Hz output even if you are feeding a HD signal. It's not quite the same problem you're having but I had to ask on here as the 360 had set itself up to use a 50Hz 720p standard which doesn't technically exist.

Like I said, it's not the same problem you were having but the solution should assist you!

[fallenangle]

Thanks - I'll follow that link later.

EDIT

I did and it confirms my own search. Plenty of other threads about the same matter including some people who sound to have had similar unexplained switches to 50Hz when using HD formats.

AS the other thread says - you have to use the TV/HD switch on the Component/ other HD cable or swap entirely to a SD only lead to access the PAL settings. Change it there, shutdown and restart in HD and you should be running at whatever you've changed the new setting to. There's even a MS support page which explains the process.

But that Y/N 50Hz Display menu page sure could be clearer about what it's for assuming it is just to check your set up can handle 50Hz only games rather than actually swap to 50Hz as EvilBoris stated.

I would suggest that MS change the wording to make that clear, something like "Check for compatibility with 50Hz only games/media. Does this 50Hz page display correctly? Y/N?" Displaying the refresh rate being used for each format and being able to access that info from the blade menus in game could also be helpful as would a 50Hz/60Hz select option in the HD Display pages.


Ran Forza 3 including the extra 1.9GB extra vehicle install disc. Looks damned impressive but car handling on short acquaintence feels woolly compared to GT3/4 on the PS2.

Unfortunately it didn't update the dash - I certainly haven't got any play from HDD option added that I can find. Looks like I'll just have to buy something more recent.

[fahrenheit]

But that Y/N 50Hz Display menu page sure could be clearer about what it's for assuming it is just to check your set up can handle 50Hz only games rather than actually swap to 50Hz as EvilBoris stated.

I would suggest that MS change the wording to make that clear, something like "Check for compatibility with 50Hz only games/media. Does this 50Hz page display correctly? Y/N?" Displaying the refresh rate being used for each format and being able to access that info from the blade menus in game could also be helpful as would a 50Hz/60Hz select option in the HD Display pages.

You'll note that when you change the resolution the first time it will ask you to confirm (this happens at 60Hz). After you confirm 'Yes' you are prompted to confirm for 50Hz. If for any reason you failed to confirm yes for the initial 60Hz test, the 50Hz one does not run. It simply throws you back to the previous resolution you had applied.

If you were to connect up with VGA and start changing resolutions, you won't get that 50Hz test since VGA doesn't support 50Hz.

50Hz is not only for backwards compatible PAL Xbox titles, but video playback also. Every single 360 game is 60Hz, its a mandatory requirement.

Unfortunately it didn't update the dash - I certainly haven't got any play from HDD option added that I can find. Looks like I'll just have to buy something more recent.

If you've allowed Forza 3 to update your console then you should have the second to last dashboard released (8955). It should include the option to install games to the hard drive.
I'm not aware of any titles yet that come with the latest dash, so you'll have to hold tight on the USB for now.

[JP]

Unfortunately it didn't update the dash - I certainly haven't got any play from HDD option added that I can find. Looks like I'll just have to buy something more recent.

It's not going to be perfect but I'm more than happy to burn the update to a CD/DVD for you. I've not done it before but it looks really simple.

Unless you live in the UK it may be pretty pointless due to the delay in getting to you but PM me if you want me to do it.

[fallenangle]

Thanks, I might have to get back to you on that but I'm hoping to buy a more recent game or two in the next week so, hopefully, I won't need to make use of your offer. Appreciated.

BTW just how does a game update the dash? The only experience I've had with anything like this is the original XBox updating earlier dashboards to the 5960 XB Live one. There was a simple Y/N prompt on loading a Live Enabled game and it installed. Do the XB360 updates work in the same way?

^^My point about the 50Hz test page is that there is no indication why it is there. Particularly on initial set up when you've just changed the resolution you're then confronted with a screen looking like it may be trying to change your refresh rate to 50Hz. or leave you with the impression that you might only be running at 50Hz as it is.

If it (or, shock horror, the instruction manual which I read before doing anything) actuallly explained what this was all about I wouldn't have been confused.

Unfortunately I'd bet many XB360 owners have no clue what the page is there for or even know enough to care whether their system is running at 50Hz or 60Hz anyway. Ignorance does have it's advantages I suppose.

[Jebus]

I believe there is a sector of each game disc reserved for the latest dash update, and I guess when the console does all it's checks each time it boots a game, that is one of them.

[fallenangle]

On another XB360 matter - I've been looking at the play and charge kit (only a possibility due to budget constraints) ). There are plenty of cheap ones on eBay but also more than a sprinkling of sellers have had some flag raisingly worrying feedback ie. faulty or claimed counterfit items.

Anybody here use a cheap charge and play kit? OK or not? Should I just stick to the official one from a reputable source or perhaps get a wired controller instead, as was my original intention.?

[^Katsu]

I have had an official play & charge kit from day one no problems whatsoever. Put it this way its cheaper than a new controller and I have only ever got one new battery since launch, and run 2 controllers for 3 odd years

I also have the official battery docking station thing again no issues.. As far as these kind of things go I'd always opt for official end of story.

[fallenangle]

That's always been my feeling about vital peripherals like memory cards and controllers which you definitely want to be reliable. But I've had some good, cheap third party stuff too, particularly cables, and other items the official manufacturers just don't make.

Thanks for the advice.