Nintendo + RGB

[Firsty]

'cos the originals included extra chips like DSP1 snd SFX.
They're clocked at slower speeds for the PAL carts. Ooof.

This thread is so over complicated.
These are the best signals you will get from your nintendo consoles with slight mods
NES (US&PAL): Composite out of box, RGB with heavy modding.

SNES (all region): RGB, the capacitor thing is very simple.

N64 (PAL): S Vid for 1st few gens, Composite for the last few.

N64 (NTSC): S Vid standard, RGB with mod. Involves wiring signal off video DAC thru an amp and over to the video out port.

GCN (PAL): RGB out of box, doesn't support component or S Vid

GCN (NTSC): Component and S Vid out of box. Needs simple cable mod to support RGB.

Panasonic Q: Component and S Vid out of box. Needs a little bit more complex cable mod to support RGB. Plays DVDs in S Video. The DVD and Game video outputs are NOT shared.

GBA (1st gen): Some crappy add on allows NTSC Composite & S Vid display.

Generally you want to be playing in 60Hz, with RGB if available.
PAL "optimisations" on pre GCN Nintendo consoles were very lame.
The Snes 60Hz mod works a treat, and is quite simple if you have a little hand/eye coordination.

Hope this helps!

[Shadow_Zero]

I don't know if I got this straight now.
I thought the games (the software) were made either 50 or 60 hz.
But if I read it now it's purely hardware! So PAL games can be run at 50 and 60 hz. as well as NTSC games.
Is that how it is? (seems kinda logical, now that I think about it)


EDIT:
I'd like to continue this discussion in the PAL vs NTSC topic
Like said, it's getting overcomplicated in here. Better split the RGB and NTSC/PAL in seperate sections ^_~

[Shadow_Zero]

SNES (all region): RGB, the capacitor thing is very simple.

How simple is it? I've read some stuff about it, but I'm still not sure how to remove those caps.
Any pics around?
What equipment do I need?

[Shadow_Zero]

I have two PAL N64s, one from the launch and a transparent one. The launch one does s-video and composite, and as I've have already stated the transparent one only does composite.

If you have money to burn get a Japanese red transparent N64, a PAL N64 and get Saurian to mangle them together to produce a multi region RGB supporting red N64.

Any reason it has to be a Japanese red transparent?
A friend of mine has a standard NTSC N64, so perhaps this is an option.
What does that "mangling" exactly mean?
Getting a chip out of one and place it in the other?

[Shadow_Zero]

Ok, I did some testing with composite, s-video and RGB on my SNES and N64 (both PAL).

With the SNES, the quality of composite and RGB seem the same, only the colours of RGB are much brighter. Perhaps too bright even.
I tried a s-video cable (which I bought as a N64 s-video cable, dunno if these differ from SNES s-video cables) and this gave the worst result of the 3. Some gray areas appeared here and there and the colours were kinda dark. But here I'd almost say the best way to go is composite!

With the N64 I can only compare composite and s-video so far. The s-video lead definately gives a way sharper image than the composite. But the colours turn a bit darker. Is that something common with s-video? Darker colours than composite/rgb?
The weird thing is, when I plug a phono (yellow cinch) cable (which isn't connected to the other side) next to the s-video cable, in my tv, the colours will become brighter. I guess it's kinda personal taste of what someone likes more, but that last thing I wonder why that happend...?
I lend my SCART plug with s-video to a friend on mine, so I can't test the s-video on my SCART connecter yet.

So what are your experiences with all the systems and connections/cables?

I found it weird that RGB on the SNES doesn't seem to do much (but perhaps the machine wasn't designed for that...?).

[yashiro]

GCN (PAL): RGB out of box, doesn't support component or S Vid

Slightly incorrect. PAL cubes DO support component (interlaced) but not progressive component.

[Shadow_Zero]

What cable would be the best pick?

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=220&

or

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-24-70-64-4-7.html

?

[Shadow_Zero]

I have two PAL N64s, one from the launch and a transparent one. The launch one does s-video and composite, and as I've have already stated the transparent one only does composite.

If you have money to burn get a Japanese red transparent N64, a PAL N64 and get Saurian to mangle them together to produce a multi region RGB supporting red N64.

Just wanted to get back on this one, since I'll likey be getting a US N64 soon. I already have PAL N64, should I let it "mangle" to 1 console that plays everything or just keep them seperate?
I'm not sure how to see this mangling, but are PAL games then played at 60hz. without black borders or not?
There's no converter that let's you play PAL games at 60hz. without black borders, right?

[gIzzE]

No offence Shadow, but if you are struggling to get the grasp of basic video signals, you are not going to be able to make a universal N64.
It is not the easiest of mods mate, it requires butchering consoles, piggy backing chips and putting some serious switching into the machine to get it to work, and no, games that are 50hz will run at 50hz still, there is info in the cart to tell the console what speed to run.
but you will have a machine that runs any Pal stuff in nice RGB


Have a search on the net, search google.de as it was a german site that had how to convert a NTSC and a PAL N64 into a switcable multi rgion unit and you can keep the chip need for RGB as well.

[Shadow_Zero]

Well, if you read my post I said "should let mangle", so I wasn't considering doing it myself :P
But your point is taken, I'm not sure if I'm gonna find someone who can pull it off.
By the way, this is a pretty old topic, I have learnt a lot about baisc video signals since then
(I think, not gonna read this entire topic AGAIN :P )

BUT, PAL games in RGB sounds attractive too
since most of my games are PAL.
But I already have a Passport who should play all import games on the consoles.

Any idea what the costs of such a mod are?
And is there anyone who can pull it off?
Saurian perhaps?

I'll search some more, but German was never my favourite language.
Better than French though :P


EDIT:
Come to think of it, won't it be also RGB if I play PAL games with a converter on a modded NTSC N64?

[yesteryeargames]

hi can i use my gamecube standard scart cable on my n64? is this safe or does it cause damage? please message me back


cheers

[gIzzE]

Shadow, the cost involes you buying two consoles, one pal and another an ntsc unit that you know has the RGB* video chip in it.
You then need somone to butcher the 2 machines to give you a universal unit, the cost was around 350DM from memory which was about ?140, when it would cost you ?600 for 2 units back in the day another ?140 didn't seem alot more, now when you can pick up an N64 for under a tenner on either format, why bother ??



*I think that if you look on the bottom of the unit the ones that have patent number XXXXXX are RGB capable, and the ones that say patent pending are not, would like others to report back on this if possible, this is what I have found and it may be a coinsidence and nothing more.



Yesteryear, what do you mean standard scart mate ?? if it is an rgb scart then no you cant , unless you remove the resistors in the scart itself, but then you can't use it on your GC, and you must have a modded N64 to get RGB anyway, hence the endless threads on the subject. If it is a composite scart then yeah you can use it on anything with the nintendo multi out.

[Shadow_Zero]

Well, you still have the advantage that you'll only need 1 machine under the tv instead of 2
But I'm still not certain about this. If you play PAL games, with a converter, on a RGB modded NTSC N64, you'll have RGB then?
If that's the case, my first line would be the only advantage I guess...
And if it's 350 DM, then I doubt it's worth it ^_^

If you play PAL games with a converter on a NTSC system, will the output be NTSC then or PAL?

And don't you mean you have to remove the capacitors for the Gamecube RGB cable to work on a RGB modded N64? Or is it really resistors this time?
What I don't understand then is that the Gamecube RGB cable works with a NTSC SNES, but not with a NTSC N64 :?

[Saurian]

If you play PAL games, with a converter, on a RGB modded NTSC N64, you'll have RGB then?

Ofcourse you will - why wont you?

If you play PAL games with a converter on a NTSC system, will the output be NTSC then or PAL?

On an N64: PAL games are displayed in PAL, NTSC games are displayed in NTSC - Case closed. end of story.

What I don't understand then is that the Gamecube RGB cable works with a NTSC SNES, but not with a NTSC N64 :?

Because the R G B signals generated by the NTSC N64's video chip are not connected to the machine's AV port (if you connect a power cord to a socket that is not switched on you dont expect to get power do you?). A modification is required to connect them. Nintendo's AV port is standard across all systems, any cable will work on any machine - but certain machines such as the SNES JR and NTSC N64 dont have the R G B signals connected to the port.

And before you ask - no. I dont think it's worth using 2 N64s to make 1 universal unit. The mod is crude, messy and hardly worth the effort. All you need is: a modded NTSC N64 and a cheap 3rd party RGB cable (please dont ask, it REALLY doesnt matter which cable you get)

[gIzzE]

I cant stand convverters but then I don't own any pal games either, apart from party games like Eye groove, dance dance etc.

Yeah capacitors not resitors.

I cant actually remember what wables work with waht anymore as my tv works very well with S-video (philips) where as my old sony was terrible with S, so I just use S now on older machines.
Actually I think the Pal GC RGB does work on a modded ntsc n64.

shadow mate, do you play games or just talk about video signals ??