PAL vs NTSC (Nintendo)

[Shadow_Zero]

A lot about this has been said and done, I'm sure
But I'd like to get it perfectly straight.

In a nutshell NTSC has a higher refresh rate than PAL and PAL has a higher resolution than NTSC.
With this in mind, NTSC games should play faster and PAL games should have a sharper image. But since PAL 60 hz is also possible (do all tv's support that, or only 100 hz tv's? Or tv's that support NTSC?) the speed should be the same.
The higher resolution was never brought to reality (until recently) since the developers didn't bother to tune up the image, thus we got the infamous black bars in our games. Another question that pops up to my mind then is: although we had black bars, didn't we have sharper image because it was PAL (which is higher resolution than NTSC after all)?

With the N64 I think we had the first Nintendo console which got rid of the black bars with some games. What I wonder then is, was the image stretched to attain full screen (and so decreasing image quality) or was it really "transferred" to PAL so we got full screen and optimal image quality. Maybe what I'm telling here is total nonsense, it's just options that pop up to my mind
Actually that story applies to the Gamecube as well. Games are now full screen. Is that a stretched out (NTSC) image, or do games now really get a good PAL transfer so we have full screen and optimal resolution?

Hope you people can help me out


So to get to into all PAL consoles:

NES: 50 hz games, black bars, composite is best connection

SNES: 50 hz games, black bars, supports RGB & s-video

N64: 50 hz games, some games no black bars, doesn't support RGB, supports s-video (though the transparent versions didn't support s-video anymore)

GC: 50 + 60 hz, no black bars, supports RGB

[Shadow_Zero]

To add some quotes from the RGB topic ^_^

Most of these questions I know the answer to .

The best SNES experience will be found on an NTSC machine with standard RGB cable (any old PAL GC RGB cable will work). Since it will be 60Hz and with no borders.

The borders come about because PAL TV system has 625 lines and NTSC TV system has 525 and the publisher cannot be bothered to sort it out.

I dont know much about playing PAL games on an NTSC system though - you would need to modify the SNES and frankly it is hardly worth it now - you might as well just buy the games on NTSC.

PAL SNES pads do work on NTSC machines. I think there was some problem using the SFC pads, but I have never experienced it.

Again with the N64 the pads are mutiregion. The n64 also has PAL conversion problems - the main one being that games run in 50Hz rather than 60Hz. You are certainly better off getting an NTSC N64 machine, especially considering these can also play JPN games with a very minor modification (breaking the tabs which physically stop the game fitting in the slot).

Saurian used to perform the RGB mod, but I dont know if he still does. I also know you have to have a certain model N64 to perform the mod - it cannot be done on them all.

As for PAL playing on the N64 - I think it is similar to the SNES situation. Personally I have both a PAL and NTSC SNES and N64, and think this is probably the best road to go down rather than attempting to mod the systems to play all region games.

[Shadow_Zero]

The best SNES experience will be found on an NTSC machine with standard RGB cable (any old PAL GC RGB cable will work). Since it will be 60Hz and with no borders.

... or a PAL SNES with a PAL SNES RGB Scart lead and 60Hz switch mod.

I dont know much about playing PAL games on an NTSC system though - you would need to modify the SNES and frankly it is hardly worth it now - you might as well just buy the games on NTSC.

Some games are unoptimised and run fine at 60Hz, some games (Mario Kart springs to mind) have been optimised for 50Hz and mess up a little. You can mod an NTSC SNES/SFC to run at 50Hz though, which would fix almost all games. A few with software copy protection schemes or unusual co-processors may still mess up, but thats only a handful of games.

PAL SNES pads do work on NTSC machines. I think there was some problem using the SFC pads, but I have never experienced it.

Some SFC pads won't work with the PAL SNES.

[Shadow_Zero]

I have two PAL N64s, one from the launch and a transparent one. The launch one does s-video and composite, and as I've have already stated the transparent one only does composite.

I knew someone had said that

If you have money to burn get a Japanese red transparent N64, a PAL N64 and get Saurian to mangle them together to produce a multi region RGB supporting red N64.

I agree, get a RGB modded ntsc N64 if you can.

[Shadow_Zero]

Weren't all SNES games just 50 hz?
What's the use of having a switch in the PAL system to change it to 60 hz?

Most PAL games run slower than NTSC versions, and have larger black borders top and bottom. A 60Hz switch will enable you to play them at full speed, with no borders.

Also, a lot of SNES games (as part of their region-protection) check to make sure they're running at their native speed - e.g. PAL Mario All-Stars gives an error message if it's running at 60Hz (either on a modded PAL SNES or an NTSC SNES). If you have a 50/60Hz switch, you can get around this by booting up at the correct speed, then changing after it's passed the check.

Note that a few games don't run properly at anything other than their native speed - Mario All-Stars, Mario Kart, Pilotwings, StarFox and a few others apparently have problems.

[Shadow_Zero]

'cos the originals included extra chips like DSP1 snd SFX.
They're clocked at slower speeds for the PAL carts. Ooof.

This thread is so over complicated.
These are the best signals you will get from your nintendo consoles with slight mods
NES (US&PAL): Composite out of box, RGB with heavy modding.

SNES (all region): RGB, the capacitor thing is very simple.

N64 (PAL): S Vid for 1st few gens, Composite for the last few.

N64 (NTSC): S Vid standard, RGB with mod. Involves wiring signal off video DAC thru an amp and over to the video out port.

GCN (PAL): RGB out of box, doesn't support component or S Vid

GCN (NTSC): Component and S Vid out of box. Needs simple cable mod to support RGB.

Panasonic Q: Component and S Vid out of box. Needs a little bit more complex cable mod to support RGB. Plays DVDs in S Video. The DVD and Game video outputs are NOT shared.

GBA (1st gen): Some crappy add on allows NTSC Composite & S Vid display.

Generally you want to be playing in 60Hz, with RGB if available.
PAL "optimisations" on pre GCN Nintendo consoles were very lame.
The Snes 60Hz mod works a treat, and is quite simple if you have a little hand/eye coordination.

Hope this helps!

[Shadow_Zero]

I don't know if I got this straight now.
I thought the games (the software) were made either 50 or 60 hz.
But if I read it now it's purely hardware! So PAL games can be run at 50 and 60 hz. as well as NTSC games.
Is that how it is? (seems kinda logical, now that I think about it)

[yashiro]

And the point of this thread is?

Ask some direct questions and you'll get straight answers.

[Shadow_Zero]

Didn't my first post in this topic contained direct questions?
I'll filter them out to make it more viewable.

- Do all games support 60 hz.? I thought it depended on the software/game, but now I rather think it's purely a hardware case.

- Did the old PAL games (with the black bars cause of lazy companies)have better picture quality than the NTSC counterparts? Since PAL has a higher resolution than NTSC.

- Do all PAL tv's support PAL 60 hz? Or only the ones that support NTSC?

[tankplanker]

- Do all PAL tv's support PAL 60 hz? Or only the ones that support NTSC?

No, most newer ones (last ten years) do, but not all. If you have brought a Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Loewe, Toshiba TV then you should be ok.

- Did the old PAL games (with the black bars cause of lazy companies)have better picture quality than the NTSC counterparts? Since PAL has a higher resolution than NTSC.

With the black borders I personally think that the picture looks sqashed, but thats my personal prefence. If the PAL conversion is done properly (say the game was org. coded for the PAL market) then it will look similar to the NTSC version.

- Do all games support 60 hz.? I thought it depended on the software/game, but now I rather think it's purely a hardware case.

For PAL SNES games, anything with a SuperFX chip will not work at 60 Hz in my experience.

[Shadow_Zero]

With the black borders I personally think that the picture looks sqashed, but thats my personal prefence. If the PAL conversion is done properly (say the game was org. coded for the PAL market) then it will look similar to the NTSC version.

How can it look simular, when you've got more 100 scanlines?

Isn't the image the same when the game has black borders? The same image, but PAL has 100 more scanlines so we get black bars.

What I don't get then is, you can mod a switch into the SNES and if you play 60 hz. then you will get full screen. Is that NTSC then?

For PAL SNES games, anything with a SuperFX chip will not work at 60 Hz in my experience.

Wasn't that something with a security lock in the game or something?
But principally games aren't bonded to 50 or 60 hz and it depends on the console how the game is displayed, is that correct?

[Valken]

Wasn't that something with a security lock in the game or something?
But principally games aren't bonded to 50 or 60 hz and it depends on the console how the game is displayed, is that correct?

No it's to do with the SuperFX chip.

[Shadow_Zero]

With the black borders I personally think that the picture looks sqashed, but thats my personal prefence. If the PAL conversion is done properly (say the game was org. coded for the PAL market) then it will look similar to the NTSC version.

Are there any original coded PAL games for the NES/SNES/N64?

[tankplanker]

Dunno for the NES, but weren't the Rare developed games (SNES & N64) made for the PAL market first?

[Shadow_Zero]

Dunno for the NES, but weren't the Rare developed games (SNES & N64) made for the PAL market first?

I thought so also!
But, coincedally, I bought Donkey Kong Country for the SNES last Saturday and it's got bigass black bars!
So that makes me wonder... heh