DAC's - techno scam or tangible difference?

[topper]

I would not expect to hear any difference using the headphone amp built into a ?250 av receiver.

You have to be realistic, the headphone amp in that receiver will be beaten by a ?50 dedicated headphone amp, and I would not expect to hear a difference between transports on that level either.

But it has shown that changing the transport on your system is pointless, which is good to know.

Sorry, I have to pick you up on this. I have a 200 quid receiver, and the headphone output is perfectly fine. I have tried several amps, and nothing moved me enough to splash the cash. Even the head-fi geeks, who are pretty nuts, say that an AV receiver output can be good or bad. Just like any other piece of equipment, irrespective of cost.

Again, comparing hi-fi based on currency value seems to me to be a little irrational. Sorry if this seems harsh. :/

[topper]

It makes sense to people who want to sell expensive hi-fi, or justify expensive hi-fi purchases to other people. I suspect that active crossover bi-amping *may* have more impact, but certainly the passive bi-amping did very little for me. It was a relief when I sold the extra power amp.

[gIzzE]

Sorry, I have to pick you up on this. I have a 200 quid receiver, and the headphone output is perfectly fine. I have tried several amps, and nothing moved me enough to splash the cash. Even the head-fi geeks, who are pretty nuts, say that an AV receiver output can be good or bad. Just like any other piece of equipment, irrespective of cost.

Again, comparing hi-fi based on currency value seems to me to be a little irrational. Sorry if this seems harsh. :/

Perfectly fine is....well...fine. For listening it will do a job.
However, I don't think that an av receiver that has pre amps, surround decoders, headphone amp, video switching and power amps built into it and costing ?250 combined with a pair of mid priced headphones is the best rig to test the differences between transports. Using HDMI as a connection will pretty much make it null and void in itself as the jitter levels you get from hdmi are terrible, wiping out the gains you get from using more advanced transports.

Last av intergrated I had was the Arcam FMJ A22, it was fitted with the DAVE module and I used it for 2 channel only, liked it had a dac built in and a subwoofer out on it, I had it with a pair of Roksan TR-5 speakers and I loved that system, it was open and extremely detailed but never sounded bright or tiring.



However, going through that system you were hard pushed to tell the difference between two regular transports.
The difference between the gen 1 appleTV and the gen2 black one was immediate, but that was because the later one can't do bit perfect.
The difference between the Squeezebox and the gen 1 apple TV was no obvious, which was great as I had a spare appleTV lying around, so that got used.



Bi-amping is a waste of time imho.
Better to simply by a bigger amp, something with more headroom.
That A22 above came with a power amp and you could bi-amp the speakers, made sod all difference as far as I was concerned.
I then picked up a bryston 2 channel amp for peanuts, and with that it was not till I got it to levels that I would never listen as could I hear a difference worth paying even ?350 for, so I moved it on.

I'm not into wasting money on gear, far from it, when I was using analogue speakers I used 13amp mains cable, thought it sounded better than most stuff up to ?25 a metre. And as I said before, I used my 60gb PS3 as an audio transport and sold my Meridian 500.
I don't think things have to be expensive to sound good, but they have to be well designed and noise free in their design to hear those subtle differences when swapping certain kit.

[gIzzE]

I should also add that the thing I listen to most is my iPhone 4s with a pair of Senheiser CX300ii ear buds.
I just like that combo, I like the sound a lot.

Another favourite of mine is their SP25 'phones, they are so easy to listen to for hours on end, and they can be had for ?100.

[PaTaito]

People always suggest pairing the right level kit for good reason...common sense.

Obviously a cheap pair of speakers wont give you much when paired with a mid or even high level dac/amp...

And vice versa.

And absolutely AV receivers should not be used to judge headphones...i've never heard any that sound anything other than passable, and i've tried a fair few.

I'd say listen to something well matched...then make your judgements.

[gIzzE]

I honestly don't get bi-wiring.

It's just... Adding more wire between the same points.

EDIT: Oh you said bi-amping. That doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me either, although a little more than bi-wiring.

It changes the resistance, inductance and the capacitence, using two runs of the same cable will half the impedance (combo of the three) and thus give you more volume, this might well improve the overall sound as you can drive you amp at a slightly lower volume which is always a good thing. Think how much nicer you system sounds at midnight when playing at level 3 compared to during the day when playing at level 6 to drown out ambient noise.
However, you could achieve exactly the same result using a single cable that is twice as thick.

I have yet to find any speaker that truly benefits from bi-wiring, and don't even find the benefits of bi-amping great on 99% of speakers, think bridging an amp gives far more benefit.

[gIzzE]

People always suggest pairing the right level kit for good reason...common sense.

Obviously a cheap pair of speakers wont give you much when paired with a mid or even high level dac/amp...

And vice versa.

But I would take a pair of ?199 speakers with a ?2000 amp over a pair of ?5000 speakers on a ?199 amp.

Amp (and pre amp) is every thing to me, you can get a pair of cheapish bookshelf speakers absolutely singing with a decent amp.
You can't get a pair of hi end speakers sounding nice with a cheapish amp, it just shows the amp up.
Cheap speakers on a decent amp may loose some detail and soundstage, but they will still sound great.

Having said all that, there are some stunning ?200 amps and speakers out there these days that no one would ever complain about listening to, so all a bit mute.

[Brad]

moot :-)

[gIzzE]

Maybe I should have put it in quotes?

In the context of talking audio, I put 'all a bit mute'.

[gIzzE]

Also when you live in Norfolk, most people pronounce both moot and mute exactly the same.

"You gonna moot them there speakers boy?"

[smouty]

I'm using Canopener on IOS which is a decent improvement for me and only ?2.99
It also has FLAC support.

http://canopenerapp.com/