Advice regarding HDMI Audio Decoders

[Charlie]

Now I have a Wii U, I wanna take advantage of it's LPCM audio and am also considering finally getting a blu-ray player and taking advantage of the high resolution audio formats the format provides.

My problem is that my receiver - a Pioneer VSA-AX10 - doesn't have HDMI. I've considered getting one of Pioneer's new high-end HDMI receivers like the LX85 or LX86, but neither will sound as good as my AX10. I'll basically be paying the best part of a grand for poorer sound quality - and that's daft.

I'm thinking my best option is a device that takes a HDMI signal, decodes it into LPCM and feeds it to jacks that my receiver can accept (rca/coax/toslink) but am unsure what kind of effect these devices (here's an example) have on sound quality? The trouble with my AX10 is it's too good, it plays exactly what you feed it, and so **** quality feeds sounds really ****. Does anyone here have any experience with these kinda devices, can you point me to a good one? Cheers.

[Charlie]

Done a little research and incase there are others in my situation, here's what I've found: 5.1/7.1 LPCM cannot be delivered via coax or toslink as neither cable has the required bandwidth. Using either cable will only result in stereo LPCM. Therefore the only way to get Wii U surround sound to a non-HDMI receiver is via multi channel analogue inputs. This method will result in no loss in sound quality.

And it's a similarish story with blu-ray players - the only way to get Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to a non-HDMI receiver is via a blu-ray player pre-equipped with multi channel analogue outputs and a receiver with multichannel analogue inputs. Again, this method will result in no loss in sound quality.

So, yeah, if you have a receiver with analogue multi channel inputs (as most good receivers do) then you can take advantage of all the latest audio formats without forking out for a new HDMI equipped receiver. And if you want Wii U surround then you just need a HDMI decoder with multichannel outputs like the one in my previous post, or this one which looks a bit better. Happy days.

[Lyris]

You would need to decode to analogue to keep the full bandwidth. I'm not sure if the degradation caused by the analogue interface would be worse than the degradation caused by lowering the bitrate to go out over a digital interface - I'm guessing not.

That seems like one solution - are the new high end amps really a step down?

[Charlie]

Yeah, it remains to be seen whether the decoder will make a decent job of converting the digital signal to analogue. I'm also worried that because it's a powered decoder, the electricity feed may degrade the signal. But it's my only choice if I wanna keep my receiver.

I've not actually auditioned the LX85 or LX86 - they're fantastic receivers by most accounts, but the AX10 is a bit special. It's a ?3000 receiver (I didn't pay anywhere near that and got mine s/h on eBay), weighs almost 40kg and is still used as a reference point in some studios. It was the best amp Pioneer ever made until they released the LX90 - but that's well out my price range.

[Soundwave]

You would need to decode to analogue to keep the full bandwidth. I'm not sure if the degradation caused by the analogue interface would be worse than the degradation caused by lowering the bitrate to go out over a digital interface - I'm guessing not.

That seems like one solution - are the new high end amps really a step down?

I was wondering why he would think they would be a step down.

I'm pretty sure the new LX would be at least equivalent to the old VSA

You'd like to think they would continue to improve the flagship brand rather than take a step or 2 backwards.

The LX86 looks like an utter beast as well.

I reckon worst you could do is audition one

Neil

[Charlie]

You'd think companies would improve their flagship brands, I agree, but the build quality of their newer amps is definitely a step backwards and many people, myself included, believe the cheaper components they now use lead to an inferior sound quality. Weight isn't always an indication of quality, especially when the new Pioneer's employ class D amplification which allows for lighter amps, but many of their non-class D amps are much lighter than the models they replaced. I know technology moves on and is refined and excess weight can be removed, but they're too light.

I would like to audition the LX86 though, no doubt about it, it looks a goodun, and has every feature going.

[Soundwave]

Oh don't get me wrong I didn't mean it looks like beast based on size or anything I meant it;s a beast just down to the features.

Like you said it has everything under the sun on there.

I currently have one of their VSX1019 Amps at home & it's pretty impressive, features are good & it does everything I need

[Charlie]

Yeah, the 1019 is a decent little receiver. I had one for a short time and it packs a decent sound. I've been through a few Pioneers - the 812, 1014, 1019, AX4ASI, AX5, LX70, AX10; you usually get what you pay for with Pioneer with no nasty surprises.

Anyway, my HDMI decoder arrived today and it works. I now have Wii U 5.1 LPCM surround sound coming out of a non HDMI receiver. Sound quality is okay, there's no hissing or anything like that, but it's not brilliant. It doesn't sound very substantial, doesn't exactly fill the room, but because I don't know how it sounds direct through HDMI I have no reference point to compare it to, and so don't know whether that's down to the decoder or not. Oh well, least it works.

[dvdx2]

I think it should sound better than 'ok'. I remember when i had a wiiu linked up to my denon by hdmi, the LPCM sound was fantastic. The Nano assault neo soundtrack sounded amazing and the zombi u audio was right up there with the best ps3 uncompressed audio. What speakers are you running? I'd say you would need ?1000+ speakers to get the best out of that pioneer you have.

[Charlie]

Wii U LPCM sounded fantastic eh? Mmm, I think I might return the decoder then as it definitely doesn't sound fantastic. It sounds very average. I'm guessing the DACs inside the decoder are cheap and they're too blame. I'm confidenet it's not my speakers - I have a beautiful little Proac Response Hexa speaker system and everything else running through the receiver - TV, XB 360, DVD player, tuner - all sound stunning. Hell, even my old Wii hooked up with stereo RCA plugs in Dolby PLII mode sounded better.

[Lyris]

What sounds wrong with it, by "not very substantial" do you mean lacking low frequencies? Tinny?

[Charlie]

It's difficult to explain. The level (volume) is much lower for one thing, but that's not a problem as I can use the individual attenuation controls to bring the level up in line with the other inputs, but it seems kinda lacking in just about every other sense too. The best way I can describe it is it sounds like it's being played through a filter. You know when you hear music played through a high-fidelity system, it sounds exciting and dynamic and detailed and weighty, if you then play the same music through a cheap system it sounds flat and dull, almost polluted, and you know you're missing layers of detail. That's the sound I'm getting. It doesn't sound like it's being played through a good system, it's like there's something between me and the sound, and I'm assuming that must be the decoder.

I've been switching between LPCM via the HDMI decoder, and simulated Dolby Pro Logic II via the optical out from my TV and it sounds better via optical and quite a bit fuller. I either need a better decoder (which I ain't prepared to pay for) or put up with simulated surround.

I'm assuming it will be better with a decent blu ray player as that will have better dacs.