Desktop Build - Opinions Please

[fallenangle]

I'm concerned about my laptop, its old and and been doing a few odd things recently so I'm looking for an alternative so I'm not so reliant on it.

I've been thinking about doing a cheap(ish) desktop build instead of buying a new laptop. I use the existing laptop more as a replacment desktop anyway so mobility isn't really important. I also have an unused AMD Radeon 7770 GPU, spare fans and many other bits I bought for my gaming desktop build.

My budget is a pretty tight ?350 and the spec I've come up with is as follows:-

AMD FX 6300 Vishera: ?83

HIS 1GB AMD Radeon HD 7770 GPU: Nil

Coolermaster Elite 330U Case + 500W Coolermaster PSU: ?50

MSI 970A-G43 or Gigabyte 970A-DS3P: ?50

4GB (2 x 2) RAM (probably Corsair XMS3): ?40

Samsung DVD-RW: ?14

1TB Seagate Baracuda HDD: ?43

Windows 7 HE: ?73

Total: ?353


I'd use the stock CPU cooler until budget allows better and I have those spare fans I'd fit in the case as well.

Does this look like a good build? Any better all equally good alternative components to reduce the price without too much compromise?

As AMD CPUs and suitable MBs are not something I've taken much interest in the choices are based on what I've researched in the last few days. The FX6300, on paper, looks particularly good value, far better performance and cheaper than any of the i3s I'd been considering. The AMD AM3+ FX compatible MB options I'm not so sure about though.

I rejected a smaller HDD, which would be no issue for me, simply because in most places a 500GB one is just ?5 - ?10 cheaper making them and 320GB ones comparatively very poor value.

I can't think I'd get similar performance with any new laptop at that price but that isn't really the point of the build. I just want something that works without any problems on a day to day basis for a range of tasks.

Any replacement laptop's CPU with integrated graphics performance is going to better the ten year old Pentium 4 2.66Ghz + Mobility 7500C Radeon Dx7 GPU I have in my old Dell Inspiron 5100. So if someone can suggest a suitable, well built, reliable laptop at the same price I'd still be open to considering it instead. It must have VGA out and preferably come with Win7 rather than 8.

[briareos_kerensky]

4GB aren't that much...can't you squeeze in an other 4GB? Otherwise, it looks good for a value desktop.

[speedlolita]

Shame Windows is taking up so much of the budget..

[VR46]

Decent specs for the money, not clued up on AMD chips, could the processor be upgraded easily in 12 months if you wished?

[fallenangle]

I tried to bump the RAM to 8GB but the prices have gone up since my gaming desktop build and I couldn't find the 2 x 4GB XMS3 I'd used in that or an equivalent at less than ?60. I paid just under ?50 18 months ago and I would have been willing to pay that but no more.

I was in my local Maplins today and they had a single 4GB Corsair XMS3 at ?39.99 which BTW is cheaper than their web site shows it. They're overly expensive for stuff like this but it did get me wondering if I could get by on just one 4GB stick rather than 2 x 2GB?

A single 4GB stick, for some reason, is typically being sold ?7 - ?10 cheaper than any 2 x 2GB Corsair XMS3 pack I could find. A saving like that would be useful but is it worth the risk relying on just a single 4GB stick of RAM? If I upgrade later the second stick isn't going to be part of a certified pair either.

[speedlolita]

The benefit of two sticks is that you get access to "dual channel".

If you plan to add another stick in a month or so then a single stick is the better option.

Also, damn. DDR3 got expensive, a few years back I got 4x4GB for ?40.

[fallenangle]

Yes it has gone up, typically, by about 20%.

After further research I've started to have migivings about the choice of the AMD FX-6300 despite the fact it can't be matched by any equivalent Intel CPU at the price. But that's the buying price, what I didn't consider was the running cost and I was shocked top discover its TDP is 95W. I found this extensive test review which confirmed that it is very power hungry especially the "Active Idle" figures:-

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/build-a-pc-fx-6300-overclocking,review-32785-16.html

I'm not sure what constitutes active idle use but I have a feeling it might apply to how I use my computer.

But anyway for typical use it is shown to be, on average, a third more expensive to run than Intel CPUs of roughly equivalent spec like the newer i5-4440. The FX-6300 has no on board graphics either so the GPU will be adding even more to the day to day power consumption. The FX-6300 would simply be much more expensive in the long run,

So I think the cheap AMD based concept is dead in the water. The question is should I find a bit more cash and try to reconfigure a sub ?400 rig around that Intel i5-4440 or perhaps go for the i3-4340 instead? It's ?20 cheaper, uses half the power, same on board graphics and the comparisons I've seen suggest that even with just two cores it's biting at the heels of the i5-4440.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/415/Intel_Core_i3_i3-4330_vs_Intel_Core_i5_i5-4440.html

Opinions?

[fallenangle]

I've gone with an i3-4340 in the end which has recently droped to ?109 at Amazon (from about ?117) and am sourcing the other bits and pieces as cheaply as possible.

Problem I've come across is something I hadn't considered. It might be a non-issue but apparently some PSUs aren't compliant with the "C6/C7 low power state" which current generation Haswell CPUs support. Problem is I can't find any PSU seller online where this compatibility matter is even mentioned.

I'm also not sure about what case and PSU I should for now as I've gone off the idea of the Coolermaster/PSU 500W combo partly because of the above consideration but mostly because the CPU is likely only a 70% efficient type. I also have a concern about the main power button on that Coolermaster 330U being rather flimsy. That is something mentioned in reviews and I've found user reviews where it has failed and effectively rendered the case unusable.

The GPU (Radeon 7770) specification says a 450W is recommended but in practice few of this output are available so any alternative probably has to be 500W.

So if somebody can suggest some decent midi-case + Haswell CPU compliant 500W PSU for under ?75 (inc. delivery) I'd be interested to hear.

[speedlolita]

If it says that some PSUs aren't complaint with a low power state on the CPU I can only imagine that the CPU won't function in that mode.

As for case + PSU combo: Combo 1 or Combo 2 would do the job just fine.

You'd need nowhere near 450W or 500W for your setup. Manufactures tend to grossly exaggerate power usage.

[charlaph]

Just saw this thread. You'll get an [incomplete] listing of PSUs compatible with Haswell c6/c7 on this thread over at SPCR and the various links provided. From a very brief perusal it appears to be a bit of a non-issue as there are a LOT of PSUs that can provide the necessary. For actual PSU reviews I'd recommend jonnyguru.com.

There is also a post on there that states that you'll need W8 to enable C6/C7. No idea if that's true, but if so then that'll change your build a little. You'll need to do your own googling for that as I have no intention to go to W8 myself.

[speedlolita]

I completely forgot about the OPs requirement for low power consumption, whoops!

[fallenangle]

If it is a W8 only feature then it won't matter as I too do not want anything to do with it, at least not for now.

I have now bought the PSU. After much research and a bit of advice on other forums I settled on the XFX Pro-Series 450W 80+. More than enough power but exactly what the AMD Radeon 7770 is recommended to use and by luck than anything else I discovered that it was also shown as C6/C7 compliant. It was at a good price and the only sensible choice apart from the more expensive Corsair CX500 or the slightly more expensive and lower powered Corsair CX430.

I'm now, or rather was, trying to sort out a case and looking at the Corsair Carbide 200R in particular.

But after buying the HDD, so I thought, via eBay this morning I've received a note from the seller that they made a mistake with their Paypal e-mail address and so the funds have been sent to the wrong account apparently. They wanted me to cancel the payment but as it has gone through and the transaction is shown as "Complete" that's not an option.

I've contacted Paypal to ask them to sort it out for the idiot but as I'm not sure how this is going to pan out and whether I'll get the HDD I've paid for, everything is now on hold.

[charlaph]

That's rough, although I hope PayPal come through for you. My last dealing with them regarding ebay disappointment went great, so fingers crossed.

That Carbide case is a decent choice, although I'm a Lian Li fanboy. Scan are pretty good with case prices on the whole, as are overclockersuk, and from time to time QuietPC and Kustom have things on their sale or B-Grade pages. Personally for me the case is something worth splashing a bit of cash on. Sure the PSU is crucial and the graphics card controls so much of the experience, but you interact with the case, it's a tangible, physical thing and a nice one makes quite a difference. I only realised this on about my 3rd or 4th case when I got a good Antec on clearance and realised my previous cases had been trash.

Fractal Design get good reviews, as do Zalman, I know from experience that Coolermaster and Silverstone are quality. I don't have experience of the rest, but as long as you steer clear of the entry level no-name jobs I reckon you'll do fine. Remember to check what type of USB3 header your motherboard has, and that whatever internal cable the case has is the right one. They may be standardised now, but when I last bought a case I found out that it only had an internal header cable, and I needed one that routed to the rear ports. Expensive mistake as a new cable was about ?20! ouch.

[fallenangle]

Thanks for the advice.

The HDD seller has now appparently dispatched the HDD (yay!) after I gently explained that the problem really wasn't my responsibilty to sort out.

I'll do what I've done in the few other situations I've had like this and leave positive feedback with no mention of the problem on satisfactory receipt. Sellers can make mistakes and if they respond properly and quickly to resolve the problem, even if it requires a bit of prompting, it is evidence they're probably OK and deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I've been looking a Fractal Design cases but the only one within my budget I could find was a m-ATX. Zalman I've also looked at and somebody at Overclockers pointed me at an example only yesterday. Didn't really like it, case window and LEDs are not to my taste but the spec was good. Also found a Gigabyte case which looked well made, simple although quite stylish but the dimensions were a bit small, limiting the number of drive bays and it only had USB2 support.

I'm going to have to spend >?40 I'm sort of resigned to that now. Unless another bargain MB comes up on eBay I'll probably have to sell something to be able to afford it (a kidney maybe ). But I think you're right, a good, solid, well made, well designed case is more important than you might think. This is particularly true as regards cable routing holes and MB mounting plate with a cut out so the CPU cooler can be more easily attached in situ. Those latter features are often what is missing in the cheaper cases, at least the ones I've researched.

Edit

Also meant to ask anyone here about those unused, often Dell branded, 'clean pull' copies of Windows OS (like Win7 SP1 64bit) you can find on eBay. They look like the real MS thing but can they actually be activated properly and are there any negatives?