Originally posted by dvdx2
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1-Chip SNES/SFC Vs. Standard
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Originally posted by andykara2003 View PostNooooo - I'm sure Leon knows this, but a 600TVL pvm (or even the much more forgiving 600 line ikegami tm20-17r looks way too heavily scanlined and pixellated for what he wants. A new/very low use consumer set is the only way for the soft-but-clean visuals he's talking about..
I have also had a 20-17 and it’s definitely softer but still has a wayyyy more pleasing than something like a consumer trinitron.
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Originally posted by andykara2003 View PostNot crusty! I have a brand new 14" Trinitron which is what I would have used back in the day if I wanted a 14" - a touch small for me, perhaps. Ironically, RGB does in fact look pretty authentic on that sized CRT as the phosphor density is such that even an otherwise pixellated image blends together nicely at that size. Even composite and s-video look reasonably good for the same reason. I much prefer a 25" screen however.
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Originally posted by andykara2003 View PostI've bought the 2-chip. Can anyone say whether this is an earlier or later board revision? There's not much info out there on the PAL units. Apparently the earlier revisions are better - less ghosting/interference:
Anyway, maybe there's info out there on the net. I hope you like how the image looks.
Originally posted by dvdx2 View Posta nice 600 TVL pvm would suit you nicely Leon; not overly sharp or soft, with excellent clarity and detail.
The idea that extreme pixel definition and obvious scanlines is maybe "ideal" isn't really true, because it's all about personal taste. If someone does want retro games to look that way -- then they really do need a top quality PVM/BVM in their life. They won't be content with just a top quality consumer screen.
So when it comes to how an image looks you have extremes -- from a Matsui using RF or Composite, to a decent CRT, Sony Trinitron, 1080p scaler, or a really high definition PVM/BVM. The key is finding a set up that makes you happy. The same with headphones and hi-fi equipment -- it's all about discovering what suits your personal taste.
I really wish I had bought a decent BVM years ago when they were £50, because I love having all sorts of retro tech to enjoy. It's why I bought a 'de-blur' N64 when you and others were raving about them. I'm certainly not someone who dismisses things without wanting to try them out and make my mind up. If I had a spare £500-£1000, I'd buy a 20" BVM just to see what all the fuss is about.
Originally posted by Brad View PostBack in the day if you could have had a flat lcd and an ossc you’d have thought that was the best way to play. We always wanted a sharper image than what we could actually get.
But using a standard CRT with 2D games was never a problem. I never thought that 8-bit, 16-bit, or even 32-bit 2D games looked too soft on my Sony Trinitron.
I've been using emulators to upscale retro games and scalers like the OSSC and Framemeister, but when I went back to a Trinitron CRT a while back, I didn't find the image too soft and lacking clarity. No, I was really surprised at how clear and vibrant the image was with machines like the NES, SNES, and PC Engine. You'd think that even a good consumer CRT screens would look far from impressive these days, but I find the image to be extremely impressive.
One thing I especially enjoy about my Trinitron is how the scanlines aren't obvious from a few feet away. It's like they blend with the image to create a very attractive look. It made me realise that the scanlines in emulators need toning down quite a bit. I now adjust scalers and emulators to deliver an image that appeals to me. That's the key to enjoying and appreciating retro games.
It's why people who plug retro consoles directly into LCD screens think retro games look terrible, because they're doing things completely wrong. Even games on an average CRT using Composite look beautiful compared to retro consoles directly into an LCD. So it really is all about respecting how retro games should look and then setting things up in a way that appeals to you. You can easily make retro games look bad in one way or another -- and then have an unfairly negative view of them.Last edited by Leon Retro; 23-09-2019, 18:08.
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Dvdx2 - I have one myself, as well as a BVM 20E1E, NEC XM29+, High end Loewe E3001 chassis shadow mask, brand new 14 and 25" consumer trinitrons & a few other great CRTs. - it's all just opinion and personal preference
Leon - you'd probably hate the BVM for 240p, it's extremely heavily scanlined and the opposite of what you're talking about - like an emulator or upscaler with maximum scanlines. They're great for 480p though - the Wii/GC look amazing on the D24.Last edited by andykara2003; 23-09-2019, 18:13.
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Originally posted by andykara2003 View PostDvdx2 - I have one myself, as well as a BVM 20E1E, NEC XM29+, High end Loewe E3001 chassis shadow mask, brand new 14 and 25" consumer trinitrons & a few other great CRTs. - it's all just opinion and personal preference
Leon - you'd probably hate the BVM for 240p, it's extremely heavily scanlined and the opposite of what you're talking about - like an emulator or upscaler with maximum scanlines. They're great for 480p though - the Wii/GC look amazing on the D24.
I think we’ll agree to disagree.
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Originally posted by andykara2003 View PostThey're great for 480p though - the Wii/GC look amazing on the D24.
When people talk about how great BVMs are, they always mention the clarity, pixel definition, and thick scanlines. When I create a similar effect using a scaler or emulator, I'm not really fond of how it looks. But of course, a BVM has its own overall look and vibe, so ideally it's best to try one out and see what you think. If I had loads of spare cash, I'd buy a BVM and decide if the image appeals to me.
I'm sure that people on hi-fi forums debate what are the 'best' speakers and headphones, but it will also come down to personal taste. Rubbish quality equipment is one thing -- but what someone considers to be making the most of audio and video is down to personal preference.
You can set up scalers and emulators in a similar way to how you use an 'equaliser' on a hi-fi, so everyone will adjust things to create an image that they feel happy with. So I think it's also the same with what type of CRT screen you enjoy using. It's just a shame that good condition BVMs aren't cheap and readily available, so that more people could at least give one a go.Last edited by Leon Retro; 24-09-2019, 15:30.
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Originally posted by Leon Retro View Postdvdx2 posted images of F-Zero GX on a top end BVM and said it looks stunning. I'm pretty sure I'd agree from what I could ascertain from looking at his pics.Last edited by andykara2003; 24-09-2019, 10:55.
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Originally posted by Leon Retro View PostMakes me think I'd buy a BVM just for F-Zero GX.
This a pic to my Ilyama crt monitor via a component to vga transcoder
I’ll get some shots taken later of the F520 running it, which is a 4:3 version of the FW900 (which has pretty much the same tube as the BVM D24 (I think zaki is your man for that one!)
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