Ibook G3

[Valken]

Ok I admit that there's a lot to like about OSX but to be honest I haven't had half the same probs with Win2k at work.

[weresheep]

Yeah, I have a 2K machine at work too (along with a Linux box). Its pretty hassle free but then it doesn't change much. For example, I've been working on the same project for about 14 months now and the only thing that has changed in that time is the source files I work on Apart from Windows Update it doesn't get rebooted, it doesn't get new software installed on it. It just sits there and compiles my software.

I think the problem with my PC at home is I tinker too much. Always trying new sharware apps, latest DirectX drivers, installing and removing games etc. I think after 6 months of the above a Windows install gets a little dodgy, whereas OS X seems a bit more resilient.

But, it might just be you'd better off with a Windows machine. Another bonus of Macs is that they hold their value better than PCs so selling one isn't as bad

-weresheep

[Valken]

Well apart from games I use Linux exclusively at home on non mac PCs

I actually have a G5 and a G4 iBook but I'm a little less than impressed with them atm. It's not that they're **** it's just that I think I fell for all the bollocks about them being totally perfect etc.

I work long hours coding etc so the last thing I want is to come home to a PC with an interface that misbehaves for stuff as simple as trying to create a new sticky because a permission is wrong, a plist file is corrupt or a cache is screwed up.

The support forums are a joke too. "Mine works fine, did you repair permissions?"

Truth is I think I was expecting something as stable as I expected from a well set up Linux machine and instead I got something that needs a lot of maintenance to keep working how I see fit.

The same is true of any OS I suppose but I've actually had less trouble compiling an entire Linux system from scratch than I have getting OSX to perform as well as I'd been led to believe.

[weresheep]

Well, you have that option. Install Debian or YellowDog on your Macs

I don't seem to have too much trouble with permissions, but icons. Man!!! How hard is it to keep track of what icon picture belongs to what icon?!?! I assume its some icon cache getting corrupted, but every once in a while, well actually a lot more often than that, I open a Finder window to find some/all of the icons are screwed up. Sometimes they have the wrong icons, sometimes they have garbled junk. It is annoying when you get bugs like that, especially when they are simple things like icons!

I guess it comes down to whose bugs do you want/are able to live with. Microsofts or Apples.

-weresheep

[Valken]

Nah, I like Mac OSX, I just think anyone who says it's perfect or indeed any more consistant than windows is talking horse****.

I'll no doubt sort the problem I have in a few days when I've more free time and fall in love with Apple all over again...

Speaking of Linux on Mac though... I had my old G3 iBook dual booting Gentoo and Jaguar pretty well.

The caching of interface stuff like icons, help files etc is a fantastic idea when it works but caches can become corrupt very easily... at least unlike the registry in windaes you can trash the lot without crippling your OS I suppose but it's still annoying.

[Paleface]

It's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than most recent Windows builds. I'm quite impressed with XP, but I'd still rather have OSX. Running 10.2.6 here without a hitch. I think I'm due for a reboot given that my uptime is (fires up terminal)

[code:1:79973c1a67]up 48 days, 2:51, 3 users, load averages: 1.75, 1.23, 0.89[/code:1:79973c1a67]

Think it's due for a reboot.

The 800mhz G3 is pretty fine for OSX bar heavy audio/image processing stuff; it certainly is when you couple it with 640mb ram. OSX is Unix under the hood, and as such it LOVES memory. 128 is unusable, really. Many friends are still running iBook G3s and are generally very happy with them indeed.

And yes, the upgrading can be faffy, but just be glad it doesn't have all the joyous security loopholes that XP exhibits every week.

I don't think repairing permissions is quite fair to complain about; I mean, it's got a solid but sensitive filesystem, it likes to have all its links and permissions correct, and if you have to hard-reboot it's no wonder that something breaks. It's an OS designed to go to sleep, not to be turned off.

Whilst their desktops are overpriced, Apple laptops are bargains, really - especially when you compare an iBook G4 to equivalent spec (bar processor) Dells, the iBook usually comes out cheaper. ?849 for something that's nearly ultraportable with DVD/CDR and enough hard disk to last a while? It's pretty bargainous. Oh, and the keyboards of the current generation are superb. Great machine all round (my 12" PB).

[Valken]

Yeah, that's the kind of apple "love" I was talking about... I've got two so I hardly need to hear the PR again :P

And the repairing permissions has nothing to do with leaving the computer on or in sleep mode is has to do with using a case sensitive unix system along with a case insensitive file system

It's stupid that permissions can b0rk a machine so much...

[Paleface]

Well, you can pick holes in any OS as long as you want. John Gruber (daringfireball.net) seems to spend his life picking holes in the Finder.

"Love"? Not really. It's not unconditional, and I'm not a zealot. I just think it's unfair to whinge that it's not perfect when you were never promised perfection. (And falling for any "bollocks" that a computer/OS is perfect is pretty idiotic).

I didn't say that permissions had to do with leaving it on; quite the opposite. Things that break permissions, as I said, were hard resets and kernel panics. It's not JUST the case-sensitivty stuff that breaks it.

Probably the most annoying thing is all the prebinding it does on installs. And all the reboots when you're trying to patch a new machine to current levels. Prebinding's a right pain.

[weresheep]

I think its fair enough to pick holes in the file system. After all the FS is THE most important part of the OS cos it stores all your information. I am confident Apple will resolve these issues (move to a fully case sensitive system, for gods sake!) but in the mean time its a bit crap.

-weresheep

[Valken]

Paleface,

It's not about me picking holes in any OS I want, I know no OS is perfect but I object to Apple zealots who go "la la, mine works fine, it's all perfect"

Regarding the "love"... well I dunno why else you would be impressed by over a month of uptime and suddenly calling me idiotic is a bit unjustified. People fall for the hype all the time, people always have a "thing" for stuff that's imperfect. Falling for hype and the promise of an os that's stable and easy to use isn't idiotic at all.

Hard resets damage permissions eh? Well it's a journaled file system so it should be able to recover a little more gracefully than that from a hard reset. You couldn't possibly mean that a normal shutdown causes file permission problems

Seriously though... if I've had a bad experience with the OS no matter how much I like it's architecture, UI and stabilty surely I can moan all I want!!!

[Shimmyhill]

Anyone know anyone after a G4 ibook, if so let me know as mine is for sale

[Super Stu]

Thing is though, for every happy Apple user, you'll find a happy windows user. It's only natural that folk will pick holes in Windows with gay abandon, because it's the most popular series of OS. Let's be honest though, how many (home) users have had to patch something up because of a major hole? We can all say blaster I suspect, but that's it.

I dunno, Windows comes in for some unfair stick at times - given the level of expertise some people clearly haven't got, it's no wonder they manage to kill installs. Like you folk with your Macs though, I've barely had a day's trouble with Windows for an awfully long time now. In fact, I'd say since February 2000, when 2k went on.

See, I'm writing this with a dvd burning, a torrent going, starwars galaxies plodding away in the background etc.

Windows ain't that bad as a desktop OS these days - I know I have no complaints.

[Valken]

There's a lot to like about all the different OSes... I'm never one to give an OS stick where it's not deserved. I can only comment on my own personal experiences.

In terms of design and implementation OSX is mostly a cracking OS, it's exactly how Unix on the desktop should be

Linux is what I "grew up" with so I'm most at home with that but as a desktop OS I'm not convinced it's up to much... even when it does all work correctly.

Windows, well my first real Windows experience was Win2k and while it's not terribly pretty compared to OSX and some Linux Window managers it's still well-stable and easy to use.

But feck it, I'm just repeating myself now so I'll stop.