Progressive Scan problem

[martians]

I am having some problems displaying a progressive signal from the gamecube on my TV. It's a Loewe Aconda 9381ZW and supports progressive scan via a component signal on one of the SCART ports. Prog scan works fine with my Denon DVD-3800, but when I try enabling it on my US cube, the picture is displayed twice on the TV. This only lasts a few seconds, then the image starts distorting and rolling, and eventually loses the signal completely. If anybody has experienced this, I would very much like to hear what can be done about it.

I have connected my cube to the TV with Nintendo's offical component cable, that I have linked to a standard component -> SCART cable by using 3 female-female adapters.

It is quite annoying not being able to take full advantage of my brand new & very expensive TV set, I hope that someone can help out...

[gtskater]

does the TV have component inputs? How have you connected the Denon to the TV?

[martians]

No, the TV has not got component input, but does support a component signal via one of the three Scart inputs. Since only one of the Scart ports can handle YUV input, I am currently running the DVD in RGB mode on the second Scart port with a normal scart cable. I have also tried the DVD using a component to scart cable and it runs progressive scan flawlessly...

I can't really see what the problem could be, I hope that it has something to do with my component -> Scart cable.....

[gtskater]

I would be inclined to hope then, that the problem does lie with the component -> Scart cable you're using. But to be honest, i haven't got that much of a clue. Is the Denon region 1 or 2? does it output a PAL Prog Scan picture or an NTSC one? and which does the TV accept? PAL, or NTSC?

If the problem isn't with that? or the cable then i'm lost, completely.

[martians]

I have just been fiddling around with the cables (once again). When I tried the DVD before, I didn't actually unplug the standard RGB scart cable while trying to get a component signal through on the YUV scart. This time I only had the component signal, and it behaved in exactly the same manner as the gamecube. This makes me believe that the problem must be the cable.

By the way, my Denon DVD-3800 is regionfree and can output both PAL & NTSC progressive. I am pretty sure that the TV can also accept both signals...

I will try and pick up another component -> Scart cable next week, but they are almost impossible to find here in Denmark. I called 15 different shops before finding a place that actually had ONE cable in stock :-(

Anyway, it seems to be the cable, or at least, I hope it is...

[Mayhem]

I didn't think you could get component through Scart... it hasn't the capacity to do it properly. Or maybe I'm getting muddled. Best wait for Saurian or someone else to comment here...

[talizker]

I'm not 100% sure but I think that the TV does not accept Progressive Scan input. I was looking for a TV towards the end of last year and looked at several Loewe sets. If I remember rightly it will take a component signal through the Scart but only Interlace, not Progressive.

[Papercut]

I didn't think you could get component through Scart... it hasn't the capacity to do it properly. Or maybe I'm getting muddled. Best wait for Saurian or someone else to comment here...

Theres no technical reason why you couldn't do it, but with component cables the shielding is generally better having three separate video and separate audio connectors.

Think the difference between 15 pin d type and bnc connectors for vga, the signal is the same but the cable and connectors higher quality.

The main reason you don't find component or progressive scan over scart is that there really isn't a standard spec for it, unless you hijack the standard RGB pinout. That and it makes more sense to use better quality cables.

I'm not 100% sure but I think that the TV does not accept Progressive Scan input.

I think you might be right. Heres the technical spec for that TV:

http://www.loewe.de/cda/products/datenJSP/0,3076,ge-en-tv3-215-258,00.html

It mentions that component video is supported on one of the scart sockets, but doesn't mention progressive scan. Intriguingly it does mention a 'vga upgrade' option.

[martians]

I am quite sure that the TV can actually display progressive scan images. If not, the guys at the shop where I bought it haven't been telling me the truth.

I found this little quote on the web:

"The outstanding Loewe Aconda, which has received rave reviews in Europe is finally crossing the Atlantic. Distributed in the US by Sensory Science, the 30" model is available now. The company representative was unable to provide further details, but the European version can display progressive scan component inputs and RGB, and has an upgradeable architecture to accommodate internal digital and analogue satellite tuners."

And here's a snip from the manual:

Chassis name Media Plus (Q2500/H)
Image refresh frequency PAL/Secam 100 Hz
PAL 60/NTSC 60 Hz proscan
Full Digital 100 AMD/DMI/DMM/DNC

So correct me if I'm wrong, it seems that the TV can indeed handle a NTSC prog scan signal.

I have been checking out QED's Sqart AV2910:

1.0m
6 x RCA Phono to Scart ? YUV/RGB Video + Sync + Stereo Audio to Scart (in)
For use where RGB or YUV component video and stereo audio signals need to be transmitted to a Scart equipped TV. This cable is suitable for both component video formats, if using with a YUV source ensure the TV
has a YUV compatible Scart input.
This cable is directional.
Provides component connectivity for all Loewe TVs with Q2400 or Q2500 chassis including:
(28? widescreen) Xelos@media, Credo, Ergo.(32? widescreen) Planus, Xelos, Aconda, Vitros, Credo, Ergo, Articos. (40? widescreen) Aconda.

This might be what I need to make the TV work in progressive mode...

[NeilMcRae]

Before you spend any money - talk to Groundy as I think he has the same TV as you and he will have done this. You can PM here.

Neil.

[martians]

Thanks for letting me know...

I have sent Groundy a PM, hope he can help me out!


Martin

[groundy]

Thanks Neil .

I got your PM Martin but thought I would reply here.

I do have the Aconda 9381ZW and I'm afraid to tell you that it most definately does NOT accept a pure Progressive signal via the AV3 Component Scart socket. This will accept interlaced Component only.

The specs state NTSC Proscan but what this is really referring to is the set's own internal de-interlacer. This is a processing mode that line-doubles the incoming NTSC signal in a similar way to proper Progressive Scan but unfortunately it's nowhere near as good. The reason being it has no 3:2 Pulldown detection. The internal de-interlacer is only activated when you put the TV in to DMM or DMI mode. I recommend you stay away from DMM mode as it introduces too many nasty artifacts, especially on 60Hz material. DMI mode is much more subtle and you will see a smoothing of the image so give it a try. I personally turn off DMI mode on DVD viewing but I leave it in place for normal TV watching.

Now the good news - the Loewe can accept a pure Progressive signal at 31Khz via the optional VGA upgrade board . I have this installed (costs around ?60 for the part) and you can feed it a PAL or NTSC Progressive signal with no problems. Pal Progressive is only possible on the Q2500 Chassis. The Gamecube Progressive Scan works brilliantly via this connection but you will need a modded VGA Cable on the import Cube. Contact me if you want one of these made up.

You can also use the VGA port for progressive DVD viewing but you will need a transcoder to convert the Denon's Progressive Component signal to RGB HV via VGA. Neil can probably offer more opinion on that side of things. The VGA mode on the Loewe has it's limitations for DVD viewing though in that there is no auto-aspect control in this mode. This means you have to manually stretch the picture to get the aspect ratio right. Unfortunatly you cannot get the aspect ratio right on non-anamorphic discs and some other ratios because the resize controls are limited. This makes progressive DVD viewing via VGA a non-starter unless you use some kind of external scaler where you can control picture size with more flexibility.

I would suggest you stick with the Aconda though as it's the best direct view CRT TV that money can buy. By the way, I use the QED AV2910 from Arcam DV88 to Loewe AV3 Componet and it's a fantastic cable.

If you need any clarification or require more info, feel free to email or PM me .