Final Fantasy XI Then...

[Vanicent]

I'm not too sure what I think about this LS issue, although I have to admit what Rare posted earlier:

And you are missing the point I am trying to make. You know what makes the game a worthwhile and enjoyable experience for me? The fact that when I log I know that when I go into the linkshell it is going to populated by a group of people I know and enjoy spending time with. That is 10 times more important than being in a LS that kills 5 HNMs a night.

pretty much sums up my overall view of the LS. I like logging in knowing that there will be people online who I know as more than just sprites on a screen, and I can turn to those same people for information/help/advice/general conversation/ask to get things from AH etc, whenever I need to.

The idead of merging another LS seems to have mixed outcomes right now. One possibility is that I could get to know some new people who could fit the above characteristics, widening the scope of people who I do know and possibly making the game more enjoyable. Another possibility is that I'll wind up more isolated in the game from other members, as I'll be too low level to help/take part with most things. A final possibility is that it could simply result in no change at all.

So, honestly, I have no idea what I'd prefer to happen.

[C']

I?ll go on the record as saying I?m not bored. I don?t spend a lot of time on as late as I?ve been focussing on some other games at this time but that is just a phase that I sometimes go through, where a week or so away from the game is needed.

[talizker]

"Talizkers tip of the day"

I got a new PC delivered yesterday and having reinstalled Windows got the most important software on first (yep FFXI). I wasn't really looking forward to waiting for the updates or redoing all my precious macro's so I had a look on the Internet and found out you can do this:

Install FFXI as normal and then copy accross the PlayOnline folder from your other/old PC. When you run it it does a file check and then goes straight into the game without having to reget the updates and also keeping all your macro's / options.

Nice

[mikewl]

The idea of making Rargh bigger is something that would be good.

But look at how many people we have given pearls to, how many come to Rargh now, I cant see how we are going to make it a more busy LS, more interesting, that's why the idea of everyone moving seemed to me a good way to go, but go for it, you can try and build up Rargh but I cant see it working.

Im just trying to find solutions that could work for all, so give me your ideas if you dont think mine are good.

[vwilsonuk]

Painfully long. Damnit I'm hungry I need lunch!

The curse of linkshells or any other online realtime chat medium is that if someone tunes in and nothing is going on, they tune out again. If they're very new to the forum, they may only try tuning in once, or maybe twice.

I used to run an IRC channel which suffered this same problem due to the nature of the medium. To start with it was very difficult to get people to spend time in the channel; one or two devoted ops had to be on most of the time, and actively engage passers by in "decent conversation" to get them to stay for a while and want to come back. It was very slow progress.

The channel really kicked off when regular scheduled events were held. To make these sustainable, there had to be enough regulars that there was a sufficient critical mass to make the event successful even if a couple of people didn't make it due to other real life committments. If there's no flexibility, people won't stay.

Translating this into FFXI, it is worth noting that for some events (Promyvions, BCNMs, Rank missions perhaps) you do need a level of committment from people who will show up and will participate. But a regular weekly slot at a predictable time, for a given activity that doesn't necessarily require complete committment in advance, might help bolster interest and partcipation in the shell. All we have to do is come up with a suitable activity.

One other thing worth noting is that I've had four or five linkshells since I joined this game, a couple weren't much use, one disbanded completely after a fairly high level character decided he wanted to run his *own* shell (>.<) , and the other has recently merged with a larger HNM linkshell which seems to have been mostly successful. These things are ecological, what people want changes and so do their social groups. If this linkshell randomly disbanded tomorrow, you'd still add those people you knew well to your friends list, and they'd still play the game. If you found a new shell you might even get some of them pearls. If its the people that you're worried about losing, then the issue is nothing to do with the shell; that's just a badge, and a convenience. If its the identity of the shell itself (and this seems to be more the case) then perhaps a stronger identity as a European linkshell with a supporting website might help establish a niche for the shell even when the people within it develop their characters to a point where they need other end-game shells to get some of their missions done. They'll still come back to talk about the football and beer, and other quintessentially European things.

The real decision has to be - is the shell about the people who started it, something that moves with them through the game, or is it about a common perspective and a niche that is shared by a group of people at any specific time but which they may grow into or out of?

[mikewl]

Hicory that's a good post and we need to think about those things.

For me its about the people in it, I think the Rargh name is good but as long as the people stay im not bothered about what name and colour my LS is, just who is in it and that we can do enough things to keep everyone enjoying it.

For me, the need for an alternative has come, in fact the need for a new main LS which is MooglesVengence, simply put, I am tired of the lack of things going on in Rargh and I need a busy schedule to maintain my interest, what I saw happening was that others might feel the same at somepoint and we would end up in all sorts of Linkshells, I think its something that would be best sorted now rather than when everyone is moving about later.

[vwilsonuk]

How about a new shell (Rargh_Endgame?), or adopting one that most people from Rargh will become involved with when they want to participate in endgame activities? (Such as MooglesVengance). At least then, as you say, everyone will end up in the same place.

The only thing that would be a shame is if higher level players were no longer in Rargh and it became a "low level only" linkshell, as it would be difficult for people to find higher level jobs to help with various activities and provide advice on how to play certain jobs well. But from what you and Mihki have said, it sounds like that is already going on, with those higher level players just going somewhere random.

[C']

The issue here is, you are trying to resolve an problem that for many isn?t present. I can honestly see the goodness of your intentions with what you are suggesting but the difficulty you are facing is that the problems you have are mostly your own.

You feel that there is not enough going on and that at end game RARGH! isn?t going to offer what you need.

But, as Darwock alluded to earlier, many of the other members are not experiencing the same difficulties you are. So that creates the dilemma we have now. You are anticipating that everyone will feel the same way you are at some point. However, by creating a widescale move from RARGH! to MoogleVengeance at this point, you risk potentially upsetting the status quo for those players who are perfectly happy with how things are.

If I was to clich? it: ?Don?t fix what isn?t broken?.

If you feel that the need for an alternative linkshell has come (and this applies to anyone else) then you have to do what is best for your in game experience. I will be sorry to see you go though

[Sdub]

Rargh is evolving even as we speak..

Going back to Hicory's suggestions, we have always been a European linkshell (not UK) and we have several members from Switzerland and a new one now - Caladbolg from Finland (did you hear that? I said new member *gasp*, oh yeah Hicory and Tsing who have quickly become valued members of Rargh havn't been with us that long either).

Cesarion has nearly finished making the website which will add further definition to our identity and presence both on FFXI and in the real world. (looking forward to it)

Plus as a result of Wedgemoon's suggestions we are now recruiting people from any time zone (even though we have had US players join us before). This should bolster our numbers even further, so Hicory and Tsing if you wanna invite those friends of yours then be my guest.

These are exciting things that are happening. I am also excited at Hicory's idea to have an activity that happens each week, that sounds great!

I feel that the responsibility is partly mine for Wedge's discontent, as Rare mentioned earlier, strictly speaking I am the LS leader but for over a year now of the LS existence I haven't done much leading.. this is because the only reason that I have the linkshell is because I had the 8k to spend at the time. I have always felt that the Linkshell belongs to all of us.. so I have deliberatly not exerted my power as 'leader' even though my finger was hovering on the 'kick' button for Halfpint many many times I didn't do it because I didn't think it was my right to.
Similarly I haven't organised any events for the Linkshell or any motivational stuff like that.. maybe that was my mistake..

The thing that saddens me Wedge is that the only option you can see is to move to a different linkshell instead of discussing on here or on the linkshell what we can do to make the linkshell better.

Adding new people (Ces already has a 60 DRK lined up to join us)
Our own website
Regular events

These sound like good improvements to me and I would like to open the door for more suggestions to come. Let's make Rargh an exciting and comfortable place to be for everyone.

Me and Mihki won't be able to play again now until Monday evening because of real life stuff happening this weekend (unavoidable) note* this is not due to boredom with the game or anything else. We will be back Monday evening and ready to level with the static.

I for one am optimistic about Rargh's future, and i apologise for this rambling post as it's near the end of the day and my brain is fried anyway.

See you all soon x

[C']

Everything you have said sounds fine with me.

I will admit that I hope that RARGH! doesn't become to 'open' to new members. I feel the reason RARGH! has stayed active for such a long time is because we have been 'choosy' about who gets in. I don't want it to sound as though I am against having new members, as I am not, but at the same time I hope some control can be exercised.

Too many new members in a short space of time may create a similar kind of atmosphere to what worried me about joining MV.

People should be invited on the basis of:

a. European-based player (this is how it has always been)
b. Long-term friendship basis. I'm sure people will have made friends with players but may have struggled to validate inviting them due to them not being european but that should not matter (and I don't think it ever actually has but I guess the euro-centric idea may have confused people somewhat)

What I guess I want to avoid is inviting people we barely know just for the sake of 'having a big linkshell'. I wouldn't say playing for 3 hours in an EXP party and thinking they were good would qualify personally etc. Taking anyone and everyone could potentially lower the overall quality of RARGH! which is incredibly high at the moment.

[Sdub]

<- Agrees with Rare

[Sdub]

Although I'll just add that I think we have been good judges of character up until now.

[mikewl]

I dont really agree to those requirements for a linkpearl, sorry.

I dont think where people live should matter at all, only the player themselves.

As for Long-term friendship basis, how are we going to make a long-term friendship with anyone if we dont bring them on the LS.

Two people were on Rargh tonight, that is so low its just almost at the point where we should be getting whoever is willing to join.

There are many great players on the game and we wont see any of them unless we give people a chance.

Tonight I logged on, had a look on Rargh and said hello to the two people on and then switched to MV, got asked to help out with PLD AF3, there was no problem at all getting the LS to gather together and just go out and get it done, no shouting for help in Jueno, no outside help needed, just went there as a LS and did it.

We cant do things such as that on Rargh, which means we will always be looking for outside help, I know I dont enjoy standing in jeuno shouting for help especially as most the time no one is interested.

This is the last post I make about it though, its clear what the situation with the LS is and thats about it.

It is a place to talk and do small - easy quests that can be done with a few members.

It is not a place where we can arrange bigger events or keep ourselves busy often.

That is the way I am going about it, it is still a good LS for what it is.

[C']

I dont think where people live should matter at all, only the player themselves.

We are a LS made up initially of players from the UK. Therefore it makes sense that if we find fellow UK/european players we should invite them as they are more likely to tie in with the play times that the majority of the LS is on. Inviting random US players won't do much good if their primetime playing period is 5 hours after everyone from RARGH! is asleep, as like Hicory pointed out earlier, if those people aren't 'entertained' they won't stay. Personally, I have no desire to play into the small hours just to keep "Brad" from Chicago who we distibuted a linkpearl to as he was the first person we saw in Lower Jeuno one day, entertained.

As for Long-term friendship basis, how are we going to make a long-term friendship with anyone if we dont bring them on the LS.

Apathye and Ces have managed this quite magnificently. It is not something I find easy to keep in touch with a person (I have little confidence in myself) yet I have seen Ces develop freindships with many, many players who are not LS members (although one of them is the lvl60 player Mahl mentioned above that he will be inviting). Also, Apathye never seems to be without people willing to help him out when he needs something. I know for a fact it is possible to make friends with people outside of the LS as i have seen it happen.

Two people were on Rargh tonight, that is so low its just almost at the point where we should be getting whoever is willing to join.

People aren't going to be playing all the time. As I've mentioned many times so far, my motivation for the game is at a low (and all this ridiculous LS talk is reducing it further tbh) so I'm not going to be on that much. I'm also enjoying a lot of my other games more than usual which will also impact on my FFXI time. Maybe other players in the LS are feeling the same or have other, more important real-life commitments to deal with.

Yourself on the otherhand seem to have developed a renewed motivation to get further in the game (I suspect stemming from sources within MV if I am honest) and are therefore online a lot more. There is nothing I can do about that unfortunately. I am certainly not going to come online any more because of it.

There are many great players on the game and we wont see any of them unless we give people a chance.

There are also a greater number of completely selfish assholes in this game, desperate to get into any linkshell they can, rape it for what it is worth, then move on to another. More often than not, that is what you get when you operate a LS where everyone and anyone is welcome. The really good people will likely to be dedicated to a single linkshell anyway.

Tonight I logged on, had a look on Rargh and said hello to the two people on and then switched to MV, got asked to help out with PLD AF3, there was no problem at all getting the LS to gather together and just go out and get it done, no shouting for help in Jueno, no outside help needed, just went there as a LS and did it.

Where exactly is your problem here then? RARGH! was quiet so you switched over to another linkshell and got the in game entertainment that you craved. I cannot see why you can have any issue. Myself and a few others have already stated outright we have no desire to join MoogleVengeance. Others still are undecided, but for me personally it is never going to happen, no matter how many tales of their superiority you regale me with, I simply have no desire to join a LS consisting entirely of strangers.

[mikewl]

OK I have an idea.

Some people are finding themselves a bit at a loss of what to do sometimes when on FFXI, not everyone.

Can we at least agree that for those that want other options, another place to go as well as Rargh all at least try giving the same place a try.

For those that are not interested at all, it doesnt make any difference, but for those that would like a second place they can at least this way have that choice and there will always be a reason to use both LS's and no one is left without being able to join in on things that are going on.

Leave Rargh as it is, who is in it etc, bring more in if you want but at least for those who do want a second place to go lets all make it the same place.

I can see no reason not to do this.

1. It would give people more choice, lower lvls and higher lvls.
2. It would ensure the LS stays together through the later stages.
3. It will give those who want more to do when the LS is quiet a good place to go.
4. It means Rargh stays Rargh and doesnt change into something we dont want it to be.
5. We might get to know some new people who we can go into the later stages with as well as the Rargh members, something I think we are going to need at some point.

For those that would say everyone would just end up in the new LS all the time, I doubt that would be the case as not everyone will be taking a pearl which means there is always reason to go between them and see whats going on in both.

This gives everyone a choice, a place and people to move into the later stages with and ensures that we dont all end up in many different LS's.

This is the most simple option I can see.

Would anyone be interested in this.

>_< I know I was not going to go on about this anymore but this is the only solution I can think of that can keep everyone happy.

Think about earlier on when the LS was new and some decided to move, had we all had the chance to take a pearl as well at that time we probably would all have two linkshells and still be doing things with those that did leave.