Final Fantasy XIV Then...

[djtickle]

Would anyone fancy exp or sb party this afternoon? 2pm ish onwards?

[Rep]

AF quests have been retconned to include Relic weapons? This is from the MNK30, fairly sure these models were incomplete and not added to the dats until at least 1 month after jobs were added.

[C']

Probably about to get some stick for this but I'm becoming a little frustrated with how little we're succeeding at things we're attempting.

The Ifrit thing wasn't too bad really. We were effectively fighting with 7 and half the people there were new to it and I struggled at the start too. But our inability to even win Skirmish is frankly embarrassing and I don't know how many more times I can say this but I really think we shouldn't be going in with such BLM heavy setups. It's causing the the fights to drag out far too long.

The buffalo is the only one that is not front line friendly but he's incredibly weak. Like, dead in one minute or so weak. Yet we're struggling with him for up to 3 minutes and anyone who is on the front line takes hits that the WHM end up pulling hate too easily.

One of the arguments is that these bosses are hard in the dungeons with melee setups and this could very well be true. But these are NOT the bosses from the dungeons. They may look like them but they are significantly weaker than their true counterparts.

And then we have the Golem. Again this is taking forever to kill and part of the problem is we have so much ranged attackers/support that once hate reset occurs it goes running off bouncing around members that the tank and any melee we do have can't attack it, making recovering hate for the tank near impossible. The golem again isn't very strong. The run last week where I was on MNK and it wouldn't hate reset on me I survived for a good 2 minutes. Yes I needed curing but he wasn't one shotting me at any time. If you have 4 or 5 melees, the odds are high that when he resets hate it resets onto someone near him anyway so everyone can still keep damaging him as normal, hopefully stopping these drawn out battles chasing a walking rock around a beach.

Yet we still insist on going in with the same setup and having the same things happening each time and not learning from them. I've said until I'm blue in the face can we try a different setup and getting ignored. Let's try a different strategy and if we lose, well is that any different to what is happening now?

As I've said in the past, I did a pickup Skirmish when it was first released. Setup was 1xPLD, 1xWHM, 3xMNK, 1xDRG, 1xBRD, 1xBLM and I couldn't believe how unbelievably easy it was. The whole thing was done in 10 minutes. with no deaths. Now we can't eactually replicate this setup with our members yet anyway (nor would I want to) but something like:

Tox - WAR
Unseen/Weeping - 2xWHM
Rep - BRD
Omega - BLM
Rare/Dai/Tonco - MNK or DRG (MNK preferred)

Is feasible. The important thing is ensuring MNK have ballad (to keep up the appropriate Fists of... stance). Have one WHM focussed on the tank, the other on the melees (also Sacred Prism Stoneskin when possible).

Maybe we'll lose again but why not try something different?

Oh and people need to know their bloody jobs that they've levelled. Having to tell a WHM to use Presence of Mind for their first Raise mid-event is ridiculous.

[djtickle]

/Agreed!

I must admit ive slipped up on the PoM before now but what we also got to remember is not everyone is running this game on perfect hardware. Yesterday when we entered Skirmish and Tox almost died Weeping and Crimson had not even zoned in.

I totally agree with the whole setup thing though, maybe the setup we used is the best setup for somebody else and works a treat but it doesnt for us. Why not change it and have ago at something else? Whats the worst that can happen we die? lol

Maybe me, crimson and weeping are just poo but only time will help that. If we are we really dont mind if you tell us either you seem'd to get more stuff done successfully before us we dont want you to feel like you have to take us if your going to lose. We just want to have fun and when it starts becoming frustrating its not fun!

Gear could be the cause of it, I know I can get much better gear for my jobs but being that I am months behind im trying to catch up with crafts and lvl'ing other jobs which has a impact on this. I guess 2.0 will do me a favor in that way as game play mechanics might be different and everyone will be learning how to play again.

[apathy87]

I completely agree with you Rare! the fight is going on for too long! The Buffalo will go down quick with the setup you suggested. The Peiste is just a joke either way. With Coincounter we just need to be on the ball to dodge the AoE move. The only real danger is Chimera, but the issue is just a matter of ensuring we don’t pull hate, even if the fight takes a extra minute. If you look at how the Golem went last night, and from when I’ve tanked it, the WAR is holding hate for a long period of time at the start, possible half its hp. We would be able to drop its hp a lot faster and even when hate is reset, as Rare stated, the MNK’s can take a beating and the WHM will not have been curing as much.

The only thing I’d say is this setup requires the newer players to go on WHM, so you guys really need to understand your job better. Read your skills, look at this guide - http://mooglebox.com/articles/whm-play-guide.php, ask us questions. No one is expecting you to know everything, we weren’t born that way, but let’s start getting the basics right .

Apa’s half-baked WHM Tips:

Always use PoM with Raise and nothing else! – if you need to Raise and PoM is up soon, wait and use it.
Raise order is TANK > WHM > DD(with Raise up) > DD(without Raise up) > DD
If a player drops, even a WHM, don’t rush to Raise them, look after the tank, position yourself, wait for PoM if it’s close, then Raise when it’s safe.
Keep Protect, Regen and SS on the tank, they will save you loads of MP
Blissful Mind is your friend
Use Esuna to remove debuffs

My action bar for WHM is as follows:

Row 1 - 1. Benediction 2.Curaga 3. Cura 4. Cure 5. SPrism 6. Regen 7. SS 8. Esuna 9. Pro 10. Blissfull Mind
Row 2 - 1. PoM 2. Raise 3. Shroud of Saints 4. Sentinel 5. Second Wind 6. Featherfoot 10. Repose
Row 3 - 5. Cleric Stance 6. Holy 7. Aero 8. Aerora 9. Stone 10. Stonera

I haven’t played WHM that much, this setup might not be ideal, just sharing my experience. Repp, Tonco and Rare will be able to provide you with better advice.

[djtickle]

Apa’s half-baked WHM Tips:

Made me RL lol at work.

[Rep]

Rare pretty much summed it up, the level of knowledge displayed by certain people about their jobs is shocking, If this was Final Fantasy XI (pre-abyssea), you'd have been kicked, first in the face, then from the party. Parse results for jobs show a huge deficit when BLM A is compared to BLM B, we're not even talking about damage, just the number of actions that person used. Alot of new folk (not all) seem to have a complete lack of desire to improve the job they just "leveled" to 50, then just move onto another one. To be a bit more positive, Tox has done nothing but try to improve his WAR, learn about his job by asking others and not only that but try to learn about other people's roles, He's genuinely impressed. We need more of that.

Skirmish generally leaves me speechless though. Garuda/AV/CC is 100 times harder, so if people can't get that right, we can't move on.

[djtickle]

I edited everything I said as I wasn't helping anyone.

Post the parses Rep if anything that will help.



If me, dai, rep and rare all agree who was against / ignoring Rare about setup? I was AFK after every run so missed all chatter.

[Rep]

I'd hardly call a very basic understanding of job mechanics elitist. We're not pushing Garuda here or anything. These are very, very simple things, like healing a tank, hate control; stuff that should have been carried over from XI if nothing else. There are certain things, expectations, that shouldn't really need explaining.

[Rep]

I thought the reason we weren't doing Rare's method was that we couldn't. We summed up the jobs we had last week and were lacking, I think we had about 3/4 WAR and the rest Mages or something along those lines?

[djtickle]

I don't agree unless your talking about me others only played 11 during abyssea release which learns people nothing. I spent years on 11 so I agree with I should understand all them things but its not the same. For example yesterday on blm during skirmish I learned how much hate certain spells gave me much more than any other event I have played on blm. That has only come with time playing this game, even though I know all about hate control in 11 its not the same.

It's obvious from listening to people and looking around on the internet that our setup yesterday was flawed. Its like we want to punish ourselfs and log off another night thinking wow I have achieved much tonight.

People need time to develop and are not going to have time in this version. Its been said that 2.0 will be like learning how to play again, might do us all a favor.

Myself I openly admit I am going to be no way near as skilled at this game as people that have stuck with it from the start. If this is stopping the LS moving forward I say again move forward without me I am fine with this as would be Weep/Crim. We are new when we came back none of us even expected to get half as much done as we have. The shock I had when I walked even into the Ifrit Battle (easy) was awesome.

I assume you never had these problems before the new members turned up which is why this has come up now?

What is the Parse program you use?

[mikewl]

I would like to try a melee job on Skirmish next time, I'm finding hate control a problem on BLM, its probably my Freeze/Chameleon timing is off, I would like to see some parse results so I can figure out if I'm putting up poor damage and what I need to do to improve it.

[apathy87]

Job wise we are now in a position to go with a setup of WAR MNKx3 BLM BRD WHMx2, so let’s try that next time.

With regards to a new players understanding of a jobs role. I think that it partly comes down to the current versions ability to PL to 50. While it is useful and has allowed you guys to catch up quickly, it does seriously damage your understanding of the job and how it’s skills work together. The levels come so thick and fast that you can fall all into the trap of taking that new spell or WS for granted, rather than understanding the mechanics. A good example of this was when you guys were using Flare, trying to cast it on mob 15 yards away. Now I’m not saying don’t PL, I do it, Leves are boring as ****.

However, what I ensure is that I understand what is expected of me in that job, what is the best gear and what stats I should be aiming. There is plenty of information on the web to help you get to grips with everything, for example, the lodestone has a great source of information for every class, mooglebox lists all the gear and you guys can always just ask us. If I’m being honest Tox has stood out for be as well, he has asked me loads about WAR, what food he should use, what stats to aim for, how and when to use his skills and it’s paying off for him.

I guess in perspective... yes this is only a game, yes it will change soon, yes you guys are new, I suppose you guys are just thinking! “Hey, let’s level as many jobs as we can and as quick we can before 2.0”, which is fine, I don’t blame you. But take the time to improve and understand the jobs you have at 50, take an hour out, rather than levelling that next job/craft and learn, so that in the short time we have left, in what is a great game currently imo, we can have some fun with the current content.

Or don’t, that’s fine, I just want to feel like we are all pulling in the same direction until 2.0.

I hope the former

[Rep]

Ok, I'm in a better mood now I have my car fixed (again) and returned to me

BG Parser is generally considered the best, there are others though.

I had no issues with you Dj, the issues the group are having are a lot more simplified then you may think. A tank in red, for around 6 seconds, with only one WHM healing him was a prime example. I assume Weeping was still only healing Unseen (DRG), which he should have stopped doing after the Buffalo, but he just stood motionless while Tox was getting spanked. No one is expecting expert levels of play. The whole idea of doing Skirmish is that it's perfect for groups to go in and pick up jobs, without too much challenge.

[djtickle]

Haha it is the former Apa, and I guess we both had bad days and clashed Rep.

You hit the nail on the head apa, yes PL'in and then doing SB 40-50 is be means no way the best way of leveling a job. But from doing Quests on War and our recent stuff on BLM its learned me how to play them jobs. I completely dog bothered wedge over war and some blm and then rep over gear on blm one night last week. It just takes some time, as long as people are not making the same mistake over and over im sure it will improve! Its like you say you need to spend a little time seeing what things do and sorting your action bars out.

(Says the man that got pwn'd by ifrit twice in a row lol, noob)

Yup I missed PoM when doing BLM AF body fight and rare pulled me on it and I learned something Thats all it needs thou a little nudge and improvements happen.

Back to Skirmish, I thought we did better the 1st time we did it (even though we timed out) and we had 3 wars? So like you are all saying a more DD grp just that war didnt have the dmg output to finish the last boss.

We should all get that parser up and running and post results on here, should be good for perfecting gear sets etc.