Are PC Engine/Turbografx games converters worth it?

[mickyboy]

Hello people, let me just start off by saying how much I love this forum. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to find a proper, multi-format video games forum where the staff and members actually know what they're talking about.

Keep chillin'

Anyway, back to the reason for me posting. I recently picked up a nearly new TurboGrafx console and have found it to be one of the most rewarding systems I have ever played. Even if it is basically an 8 bit machine with 16 bit graphic capabilities, I am well and truly hooked.

So far, all the games I have are official TurboGrafx Hu-Card releases, in cases, with instructions and Hu-Card sleeves, naturally. Here's my current list: Blazing Lazers, Pac Land, Legendary Axe, Bravoman, Vigilante, Devils Crush, Splatterhouse, Bonks Adventure & Dungeon Explorer.

The trouble is I'm getting seriously addicted to this format and cannot stop buying games for it. I was wondering if anyone here can help sway my decision to buy a games converter that will allow me to play Japanese PC Engine titles on my TurboGrafx.

At first it seemed like a great idea but now I'm thinking not to bother. The reason: well apart from not speaking Japanese, I'm just not sure if I'd get any real use out of it. Apart from obvisous titles like Outrun & Shinobi, I do not know of many MUST HAVE titles. Back in the day, I was transfixed by screenshots of Drunken Master/The Kung Fu a.k.a. China Warrior on the TurboGrafx and thought "I must have this game" all these years later, it turns out that particular game is a turkey hid behind cool graphics.

Basically, I need some advice, what Japanese Hu-Card titles MUST be in any right minded Engine/Grafx owners library?

RPG's are my thing ( big problem if you don't speak Japanese, obvisously ) and good platformers too. I love ninja type games but I'm not that mad for sports games or shoot 'em ups ( Blaing Lazers already satisfies my occassional need for mindless space violence )

Hope you can help,

Mickyboy

[Wild_Cat]

Soldier Blade (and the whole Star Soldier series, actually) are essential if you're into fast-paced shooters with cool music and nice graphics (the scrolling and graphic effects in Soldier Blade puts a SNES to shame). Ninja Spirit (by Irem) is also worth a shot if you like ninja games. PC Kid/BC Kid/Bonk and its sequels are great platformers, and then of course there's the game no one should be without: Bomberman. Get the latest version you can find, a multitap, some extra controllers, friends to hold them and have fun.

[mickyboy]

Thanks mate, yeah Ninja Spirit is one game that's on my must have list. That neatly brings me onto another question regarding regional versions of games.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I think you can get Ninja Spirit either as a TuboGrafx release or as an original Japanese PC Engine release.

My question: Which would be better?

Everyone used to rave about Japanese/American games being graphically superior, sonically superior and much faster than the same game released in Europe especially the U.K.

But, the Turbografx is an American machine to start with so would buying a Japanese version of an American game really be that much better?

[Wild_Cat]

Correction: The TurboGraphx is the American version of a Japanese machine (the NEC PC Engine), just like the (ugly-looking) Super NES is the American version of the Japanese Super Famicom.

American and Japanese games from the 16-bit era are exactly 20% faster than their European counterparts (no difference there between UK and the rest of EU). It's because alternative electric current runs at a frequency of 50 Hz in Europe and 60 Hz in the US and Japan. A TV screen's refresh rate is that frequency: 50 Hz in PAL, 60 in NTSC.

Because of that, US and Japanese games run at 30 or 60 frames/second (which is what the programmers intend) while European ones run at 25 or 50. And console games, for a reason I can't fathom, have always been frame-based, with VSync on, rather than timer-based (like PC games -- this is also the reason why console games slow down instead of skipping frames when you reach the hardware's limits). Thus, if no reprogramming is done, the US/Jap version of a game will be exactly 20% faster than its EU version. Needless to say, said reprogramming never occured in the 16-bit era. Even the music's speed changed (except on the SNES, but I won't detail that here); to tell the truth, even nowadays 50 Hz games are seldom optimized (see Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy 10 for "perfect" examples).

However, since the Dreamcast, more and more games are allowing us to run them in NTSC on Euro machines (they can still be run in 50 Hz though, because 1. Some TVs don't support 60 Hz, and 2. Current consoles are shipped with ****ty component video cables, with which 60 Hz doesn't work if -- like almost everybody -- you're using a RCA to SCART adapter).


Anyway, I digress. Sorry for boring you with all those gory technical details (more available on demand, though). ^.^U
What you need to know is that on most consoles, US and JP games will run at 60 Hz while EU games will run at 50 Hz. "Most" includes the PC Engine. Thus, you should get US/Jap games in priority.

The content itself is usually the same across regions (aside from the language, of course). There have been some exceptions, though, like Contra ("Probotector" in Europe, where the human characters have been replaced by robots) and Xbox Ninja Gaiden (gore toned down). And try not to get German games, censorship there is just down right ridiculous (for example, in the German version of Carmaggeddon, all the pedestrians -- the gory running over of which is the selling point of the game -- have been replaced by -- get this -- balloons!).

[mickyboy]

Yeah, I hear you brother, sounds logical to me. I cannot believe that about the balloons in Carmaggeddon, whats up with that? I cannot believe the Germans thought that would be an O.K. substitute.

This cencorship thing really gets my goat, why do some sections of governments take it upon themselves to vet what we can and cannot see. They must think we're all on the edge just waiting to kill someone but need to see something first to spark us off.

99.9% of the population know the difference between right & wrong and just because we see a game like Mortal Kombat they think we're all gonna go out, grab someone ( GET OVER HERE! ) and beat the living daylights out of them.

Once again, the dumb minority have to be spoon fed and fussed over like infants and as a result the majority lose out on some good, harmless entertainment.

[Resonance]

Anyway, I digress. Sorry for boring you with all those gory technical details (more available on demand, though). ^.^U

More gory technical details please! I did not know the whole thing about consoles being frame based and PCs being times based (Quite interesting). I would be interested to hear more about this and anything else perhaps in a new thread if needed.

[Baseley09]

This thread has boring posts.

Here's the fun : Jenni Powell is too thin

Now the deal, TG16 jap converters are nice, but expensive........Kisado i believe produce. Jap to us converters are silly money(gay), but seeing as you have TG16 you have a chance.


Games you want that arent recomended by CVG readers :

The Kung Fu
Download
Shubbibin man 2
Final Soldier > shooters
Final Match Tennis > Super Tennis
Jackie Chan

[Wild_Cat]

Okay, here are a few more gory technical details, then.


You already know that NTSC games are 20% faster than PAL games. But you've probably noticed, too, that non-optimized PAL games have squashed-looking graphics with black borders on the top and bottom of the picture (again, look at PAL Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy 10 for shining examples of why this sucks).

That's because the PAL standard has a higher vertical resolution than NTSC: 625 lines instead of 480 (PAL is actually a better format than NTSC on almost every point but the refresh rate). Both standards use the same horizontal resolution. However, TV screens' aspect ratios (4/3 or 16/9) are international "standards": thus, on a given TV set, a NTSC line is wider than a PAL line.

Japanese and American games are programmed for NTSC display. When they're run on a PAL display without any modifications to the code (other than replacing "use NTSC" by "use PAL"), the graphics are displayed on 480 of the 625 lines, but these lines are PAL lines: they're thinner! The results are a distorted image (since its aspect ratio has been changed) and the "poor man's cinemascope" effect that's very common in 8- and 16-bit Euro games. Most games in the PS1/Saturn era were at least optimized to use the PAL resolution. They were still slower than their US/Jap counterparts (speed optimization is harder to do since the games were frame-based), but at least they "looked" right.

[muddy]

has MD seen this thread yet?

[EddieG]

And console games, for a reason I can't fathom, have always been frame-based, with VSync on, rather than timer-based (like PC games -- this is also the reason why console games slow down instead of skipping frames when you reach the hardware's limits).

PCs haven't been frame-based because the monitors are not locked down to single frequencies, and all PCs convert the Power Supply to 12v DC, making the input Voltage/Frequency largely irrelevant, therefore Timer based programming is the only logical way to go.

Consoles on the other hand use a standard output device, and as far as the regional developers are concerned all TVs run at the same refresh rate, so the hardware is designed to match, (why should American programmers worry about to 50/60hz problem for the UK, their designing for their market not ours, the PAL problem is left to the Euro conversion team, who in most cases are too lasy to do a proper job).

The X-Box is the only exception to this, and that's only because it's basically a cut down PC, and M$ had the sense to allow display frequency switching in the hardware.


Oh, and on the original subject.

If you want to stick with HuCards, get a converter, Japanese releases far out number the US releases, and the U.S. Designed games (RPGs aside) were on the whole pretty poor.

Must HuCard haves are:
PC Genjin 1,2 & 3 (Bonk's Adventures but they somehow seem better in JAP)
BomberMan, Bomberman '93 and Bomberman '94, (if you only get one get '94)
Devil Crash (Pinball)
Dungeon Explorer (RPG ish - There is a lot of Jap, but it probably came out in the states as the follow up was released on CD)
Jackie Chan (plaformer)
Legend Of Hero Tonma (Platformer)
Outrun (a must have on every console/computer)
Parasol Stars (arcade/platformer - good luck finding it)

Plus any number of shoot-em-ups

However, any fan of RPGs should forget about the HuCard converter and get a CD-Rom unit instead, as the CD are not region coded, and there are an abundance of RPGs available.

Ys book I+II, Ys 3 (wanderers from Ys), Dragon Slayer - Legend of Heroes
Dungeon Explorer II, Exile and Exile 2 all had American releases and are worth having. Plus there are plenty of Jap titles.
(avoid Dungeon Master: Theron's Quest though)


Eddie G.

[mickyboy]

Cheers Ed, my TurboGrafx has taken something of a backseat at the moment but I do love it and I'm always on the hunt for new Hu-Cards. I desparately want the CD add-on to the TG16 but I cannot see it anywhere for sale.

I love RPG's and the Y's games look ace, until I find the CD Rom unit for sale, I'll have to console ( no pun intended ) myself with my lil' Dungeon Explorer card.

Micky