New consoles just don't cut it

[Kotatsu Neko]

I was playing CastleVaniaPS2 and Metal Gear yesterday, and I nearly fell asleep 10minutes into the cut-scenes. All the intro's, drawn-out conversations and backtracking gameplay really irritates me to a point where I have to stop playing and take a breather.

Totally agree. I wish they would just get on with it. In an RPG, okay, you need some story bits (but even then Squaresoft please try to shut up a little sooner), but in an action game....

Yawn.

I'm sure that's part of the appeal of old games. Pick up and play, no fuss. Think of how a Castlevania game starts on SNES or MD...

Shot of castle.

Play game.


Now that's how you do it.

[mezzanine]

There have always been story based games - from old text adventures to digital comics/story books on the SFC, PC Engine and others.

[Leon Retro]

I am always quick to point-out I'm not some 2D obsessive, in fact I love 3D.

The first time I played Ridge Racer, Daytona, Tekken, Soul Edge etc.. These are magical moments in my gaming life, but nearly every 3D game I love is an arcade machine or style game.

WipeOut is a fantastic slice of arcade style speed and thrills, but it would have been a bit grating if it had been full of cut-scenes and other unneeded distractions.

I admire and love arcade style games. They are accesible, intuitive, designed to please all levels of gamer, and never overburden the player with superfluous rubbish.

I imagine Metal Gear Arcade, Castlevania Arcade, FinalFantasy Arcade, the list goes on. If these games were designed for an arcade setting, I have a strong suspicion that people would find them more exciting and pleasurable if they were done in true arcade style.

The rule that states ' Arcade games should be short and sweet ' should be torn-up and thrown away. There is no reason why arcade style experiences in the home cannot have many hours of gaming in one go.

Imo games these days need to stop giving headaches, and present the gamer with more actual adrenaline pumping gameplay. There is so much talent, and a lot of it is wasted with over-indulgence in non-gaming parts of a title.

[Commander Marklar]

I imagine Metal Gear Arcade, Castlevania Arcade, FinalFantasy Arcade, the list goes on. If these games were designed for an arcade setting, I have a strong suspicion that people would find them more exciting and pleasurable if they were done in true arcade style.

Heh, when you put it like that...

The rule that states ' Arcade games should be short and sweet ' should be torn-up and thrown away. There is no reason why arcade style experiences in the home cannot have many hours of gaming in one go.

Ahhh, no. Many arcade game DO have many, many hours of gaming. Put, the short and sweet, imo, refers to the instant catch. That small game play element that is easy to hook into, repeated throughout the game. The depth of the title comes from an extended element that isn't apparent from an initial play but sort of teases the gamer with the simple game play mechanic to continue playing and then "BOOM!", it smacks you square in the balls.

If you see what I mean

Daytona is the perfect example. A game so wrapped up in its own game play that you don't even notice yourself learning those little gameplay tricks to push the car ever faster, until it has a hold of you. It dangles that carrot quite nicely inbetween Sonic Corner and 39 other racers...

****, I'm gonna have to go play Daytona now.

[Leon Retro]

I have got you hooked on the arcade vibe Commander

I agree that arcade games have a lot of depth. This is what most people fail to realise. Its easy to stumble through Soul Calibur or Street Fighter and use zero skill, but to compete with the big-guns you have to learn the intricacies of the game.

The only way arcade style experiences are going to thrive though, is if developers put a lot of content in them. In the home, there really is no reason not to have tons of levels and characters. Outrun 2 in particular suffered because Sega didn't make a true home version. The game seems small compared to a lot of modern racers, even if it is big on fun.

Thats what I love about true arcade style games. They are so approachable and give so much to the gamer. In fact most modern games give much less, even though they are bloated with options and features.

The mention of Daytona has been dreaming once again of an XBLive version. Come-on Sega, if any game is going to bring in the masses it's this, possibly the most popular arcade machine ever made.

[mid]

The only way arcade style experiences are going to thrive though, is if developers put a lot of content in them. In the home, there really is no reason not to have tons of levels and characters. Outrun 2 in particular suffered because Sega didn't make a true home version. The game seems small compared to a lot of modern racers, even if it is big on fun.

I know what you mean really, but I'll be sure to check exactly how many hours my profile says on it when I eventually beat Mission Mode. Right now, I've played it more than most XBox titles in my collection, and I'm only about 70% of the way there.

[Jushin-Thunder-Liger]

I dunno really
Ive had massive amounts of fun over the last 2 months with Halo 2 and Pro Evo, the most fun since Shenmue in fact.
But they just dont match up to Miyamoto's best work on the SFC in terms of sheer "magic".

[2FreshRecords]

Bought every console on import as its been released PCEngine DUO, 3DO, Atari Jaguar etc.. to give them all a chance.
last console i really rated was the Saturn, other than that theres been a few cool titles on the Dreamcast and the GTA's on the PS2, thats it for me.
all the rest been pretty pants!

I like the look of some of the GBA games but with handhelds the screens to small, gives me a headache

All about the SFC & the Engine

[Leon Retro]

One thing I have realised is it doesn't matter what the hardware is, its all about the games.

The reason people love the SuperNintendo so much, is because it had literally trucks full of great games. From the launch to its death with YoshisIsland, the machine had some of the best games ever made, and all the AAA ones had a special magic.

For me, the greatest thing about the past was the arcades. With Namco, Capcom and Konami competing in the mid 90's, it was a golden era for 3D innovation.

All this arcade joy seemed to go down hill quite a bit after 96, but there has always been a decent trickle of titles to sustain the fans. If you look at the market now, with PSP Ridge Racers, Alien Homicid, and a new Contra game on the horizon, it seems that true arcade thrills are being made again, and thats probably because there is a market demanding them.

If companies put more effort into 2D and arcade titles, and with marketing like the stuff down for Viewtiful Joe, we could see a healthy resurgence of these genre's.

Now all I want is a new 2D Castlevania for a console, in the style of CV4 and with everything polished to perfection.

[Jay]

I wouldn't dismiss the rose-tinted glasses argument entirely. Count the number of truly playable classic Commodore 64 games, for example, and compare it to the number of games actually released for the system (somewhere around the 13,000 mark, I believe). Same with the Megadrive, say. How many games were released? 500+? How many true classics are there?

It's all very well generalising - 'old games were much better', 'new games are crap' - but the market (both old and new) is still diverse. Want 2D games? Want arcade games? Want fighting games? They're still out there. Personally, I can't stand games that require me to wander around aimlessly for any length of time, so I avoid them. That doesn't mean that I dismiss modern games simply because I don't like Metal Gear Solid.

Gitaroo Man, SF3, Ikaruga, Gradius V, Silent Bomber, WarioWare, OutRun2, MarioKart: Super Circuit, Metroid Fusion, Kuru Kuru Kururin, Mashed - all games I would classify as having old school gameplay values. And there are loads more out there. You just need to look for the right games.

Jay

[Leon Retro]

I agree that there are still arcade and 2D gems to be found, but how long will companies make these types of titles if they sell so badly.

Outrun2 didn't perform very well, a lot of people I know think it's retro and too simple. Games like Ikaruga and GradiusV are very niche in the west, and 2D action titles are very very rare, just look at Alien Homicid and the way media are stunned that someone has the guts to make such a game these days.

Mashed is one of my favourite games, but it wasn't a big success, even though it contains virtually endless fun. What can we do when developers seem so preoccupied with making cinematic experiences and generic FPS's, I just hope the market gets fed-up with what it's being given and people get a taste for more pure instant gaming once again.

[Pacman555]

It's great when people just rehash old arguments and get nowhere, isn't it?

[Jay]

Even better when people complain about said arguments while bringing nothing to the table.

[Leon Retro]

Just answer the questions guys.

1. Why have most people turned their backs on arcade and 2D games?

2. Who's to blame?


I seem to raise some good points and it seems no one is interested in thoughtful debate.

I tell you one thing, all the fans of PSP Ridge Racers are so lucky to have the game. There are probably only a handful of gamers that deserve and appreciate what Namco have given them, the majority would of probably bought any old racing pap.

It's easy to criticise rather than be bothered to bring anything useful to the discussion.

[Jay]

It's easy to criticise rather than be bothered to bring anything useful to the discussion.

Which was my point. It was directed at pacman, not at you. You did indeed raise some very good points.

1. Why have most people turned their backs on arcade and 2D games?

2. Who's to blame?

1. Because of the thrill of the new. On one hand, I can entirely see why - many genres *have* been improved with the advent of 3D. Racing games stand out as the most obviously improved, IMO. Unfortunately, this has had the effect of 'traditional' gaming seeming less attractive to the masses. It's the same with Hollywood special effect spectaculars vs, say, the latest Woody Allen film.

2. The consumer. The industry only provides what the public wants. It is business after all.

Jay