(Retro) What have you been playing this week? Vol.2

[wakka]

Yeah, it's a terrible game. The levels where you just hunt for collectibles, oh man. So dull. I've actually never played the first. I wonder if I should give it a try.

[replicashooter]

No. Save yourself the agony.

[Sketcz]

I don’t think anyone anywhere at anywhen has ever claimed SA2 was the pinnacle of gaming.

You'd be surprised!

Both citations taken from Wikipedia. Critics fawned over both games back in the day. My god, were we all just perpetually high 20 years ago?

Sonic Adventure 1

Sonic Adventure was highly anticipated by video game journalists because it was the first fully 3D Sonic platform game. It received critical acclaim, some of whom called it one of the greatest video games of all time. It was the Dreamcast's bestselling game; by August 4, 2006, it had sold 2.5 million copies, including 440,000 in Japan and 1.27 million in the United States.

The visuals and presentation attracted wide acclaim. Arcade magazine described it as a "quantum leap forward" in aesthetics and visual detail in video games, and Hyper estimated they even exceeded what was possible on high-end personal computers. Brandon Justice (IGN) called it the most graphically impressive platform game released up to that date, praising its cinematic sequences and describing it as "engrossing, demanding, and utterly awe-inspiring". Peter Bartholow of GameSpot agreed and said only Soulcalibur's graphical quality surpassed that of Sonic Adventure. Edge felt the graphical features showed off the Dreamcast's potential to the fullest and that the game was "perfect" as a showcase for the system.

Bartholow and Colin Ferris (Game Revolution) called the full-motion video (FMV) cutscenes and voice acting well-produced and fitting. Bartholow and Marriott praised the rock-style music and called it top-notch.

The gameplay was praised. Bartholow admired the straightforward, linear approach to the 3D platform genre and particularly praised it for keeping the basic gameplay of the original Genesis games. Justice said the game would keep players busy even after completion, noting its internet connectivity and other extras. Retrospectively, 1001 Video Games You Must Play Before You Die called its environments vast and twisted, stating it "brilliantly" captured traditional Sonic elements.

The Chao minigame was noted as a major departure from the gameplay of the series. Bartholow wrote that "while really just a diversion", the Chao were an interesting, fun addition, singling out their internet functions as a highlight. Marriott said the Chao helped increase the replay value. Ferris called the Chao "a neat addition" and praised its use of the VMU.

Some critics compared Sonic Adventure to Super Mario 64—Nintendo's "groundbreaking" 1996 game that propelled the Nintendo 64 and the 3D platform genre. Edge said Sonic Adventure was a worthy rival to Super Mario 64. Marriott praised the gameplay as varied and said its replay value was strong. Game journalists Rusel DeMaria and Johnny L. Wilson retrospectively wrote Sonic Adventure had fascinating features, such as "the use of the Tamagotchi-like memory card to incubate eggs for little pet creatures" and "some good action segments".

Bartholow thought Sonic Adventure redefined the possibilities of the platform genre, and according to Computer and Video Games (CVG), "many things you thought were impossible to see and experience in computer games are now here". Marriott wrote that the game was an impressive showing of the Dreamcast's potential and that it was among the best of the series. Arcade and CVG speculated the game could save the Dreamcast, which had not sold well by the end of 1998. CVG also thought it could re-establish Sega as the dominant console manufacturer after the relatively unsuccessful Saturn.

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Adventure 2 received critical acclaim, with scores of 89 from review aggregator Metacritic. Critics appreciated the game's multiple playing styles. According to Edge and reviewer Four-Eyed Dragon of GamePro, the core game's three styles and bonus features such as Chao gardens made the game engaging to play. Johnny Liu of Game Revolution praised its replay value of multiple playing styles and 180 different goals. Anthony Chau of IGN called it "one of the best Sonic games ever": "If this is the last Sonic game in these declining Dreamcast years, it's satisfying to know that the DC didn't go out with a bang, but with a sonic boom."

Liu called the graphics "sweet, sweet eye-crack". Four-Eyed Dragon wrote: "Sonic [Adventure] 2 is simply jaw-dropping beautiful", citing its detailed backgrounds and scenery and the playable characters' and enemies' extensive color palettes. According to Chau, the game had "some of the best textures ever seen" and was one of the most beautiful Dreamcast games. Edge was impressed by the texture detail and draw distance,[56] and Chau, Liu and Ahmed praised its 60-frame-per-second rendering speed.

According to Ahmed the game's music was a step up from Adventure's "campy glam-rock and J-pop soundtrack", with less emphasis on lyrics, and Liu appreciated its more "understated" approach. Four-Eyed Dragon called Adventure 2's music "an eclectic mix of orchestrated masterpieces, guitar tunes, and melodic hip-hop voices gracefully fill the game's ambiance to a perfect pitch." Ahmed said, "The voice acting, and the lip-synching in particular, is executed quite well".

Edge appreciated the story's presentation from both perspectives: hero and villain. The game sold almost 50,000 copies in its first week in Japan. By July 2006, it had sold 1.2 million copies and earned $44 million in the United States. Next Generation ranked it as the 42nd highest-selling game launched for the PlayStation 2, Xbox or GameCube between January 2000 and July 2006 in that country. It sold 1.44 million copies in the United States by December 2007, making it one of the best-selling GameCube games.

Sonic Adventure 2 received several accolades, including the 2001 IGN's Editors' Choice Award. ScrewAttack called it the fifth-best Dreamcast game, and GamesRadar rated it the tenth-greatest Dreamcast game out of 25: "Despite trailing off significantly in recent years, the 3D side of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise had a surprisingly stellar start with the Sonic Adventure entries, and the 2001 sequel really amped up the action". In February 2014, IGN's Luke Karmali called it his tenth-favorite game of all time.

[dyer60]

Violent Storm and Undercover Cops (MAME on the Pi) for me.

Violent Storm is great, classic 90's, music is pure cheese and game play is really tight. Love it!

[Sketcz]

I've been replaying some classics I loved in my youth. I already posted about Zelda Ocarina of Time in another thread, but I put more time into it again, thinking maybe I didn't give it a chance, but nope. I hate it.

I loved it dearly back in 1998. I would have agreed with the many polls which voted it the best game of all time (on GameFAQs it won the #1 spot for like 15 years running, until Undertale beat it). Today? It's pure bull**** and embarrassing. I cannot believe how tarnished my childhood memories are. I also see it as a good example of why people look down on videogames, if junk like Ocarina of Time is heralded as the best we can do. I think of all the "non gaming" people I know, and they would laugh with disdain if they were shown OoT. It is not the greatest game ever made, it's actually really, really, REALLY bad.

First of all, I have a very low opinion of games which give you crates to break. I have a rule for FPS games, where I count the minutes to the first breakable crate. OoT uses pots instead of crates, but immediately the game starts with needing to breaking respawning pots. This is not good game design - it's boring, and repetitive, and awful.

Also the opening is terrible. Painfully slow and restrictive, and just irritating. I can understand the need to collect the sword acting as a tutorial for the controls. Fair enough. Enter the little maze, get the sword, and this should acquaint players with the controls. But the next task is collecting 50 rupees to buy a shield, otherwise you cannot progress. So you run around breaking pots and collecting one at a time these little green rupees. The game is trolling you by saying: the next 20, or 30, or however many hours, will be you doing this. Over, and over, and over again. Breaking pots and farming rupees.

Then there's the first dungeon, which exemplifies the irritating design of the entire game. You need to push a block from one end of a room to the other. Then run back to the opposite end. Get out a stick. Light it on a torch. Run all the way back to the other end again. Jump the block. Use the stick to light a different torch to reveal a switch on the ground, ON THE OPPOSITE END OF THE ROOM. Run all the way there again. Stand on switch. It opens the door on the opposite side of the room. Run BACK AGAIN. Bloody hell - how many times is this game going to force me to run back and forth? The answer? Forever.

I forced myself past this. Then there's an annoying jog over Hyrule field, which you will do repeatedly. A long empty stretch of nothing, to remind you of what you're doing with your life when playing this: nothing.

The CG backgrounds at the castle are laughably bad, even for 1998 standards.

Then there's a forced stealth section, of trying to weasel past guards on the castle field. It's badly implemented and not fun. MGS had a radar which provided you with the needed info. Here it feels kinda random if guards can see you or not.

Then there's a box pushing puzzle to enter the sewer drain of the castle. I hate box pushing puzzles. They're not clever: they're cheap, and lazy, and what bad designers do when they want to waste your time. Every time a game forces me to do a block pushing puzzle I remove one point from its review score - Zelda Ocarina of Time has endless block puzzles throughout.

After finishing the puzzle the sun had just set, meaning I could not even progress further until it rose again. Thereby forcing me to sit for several real world minutes, doing literally nothing, as I waited for the in-game timer to change and let me progress. This is stupid.

Then there's another forced stealth section where you cannot control the camera, it's locked at an angle, meaning you can't push straight up on the control stick, you need to move it at an angle. Thereby guaranteeing you will likely fail. They utterly failed to grasp what makes stealth fun in games.

I made it past, saw a cutscene, realised I was done with this junk. At this point I gave up for good. This is not the game I remember playing 20 years ago. This is a travesty of bad design.

[DeathAdder]

I've been playing Super Soccer. Originally bought it with my SNES, but hadn't played it in 25 years. It's still great fun.

[S3M]

I've been replaying some classics I loved in my youth. I already posted about Zelda Ocarina of Time in another thread, but I put more time into it again, thinking maybe I didn't give it a chance, but nope. I hate it.

Now you understand how Zelda fans of the original four games felt when they played Ocarina. Aside from being in 3D it was the worse game in the series at that point. The pacing was all wrong and too slow, the story was taken straight from link to the past. Nintendo even when they made bad games do so with polish and style. For many Ocarina is just there first big 3D and RPG experience. So you have that feeling of wonder when you played it. Link to the past and Awakening are head over heels better games in every way. While many people hate it at least Adventure of Link tried to do something a bit different.

As for me well, I've been capturing some Virtua Cop, still a classic, but without the light guns it's not quite the same on modern TVs. Hopefully at some point there will be a replacement light gun for retro consoles.

[Sketcz]

Now you understand how Zelda fans of the original four games felt when they played Ocarina.

Yes! My first was actual Loz, then LttP, then LA. But I guess I was young and 3D felt new. In hindsight though, the 2D ones hold up much better. LttP on the SNES mini was even better than I remember it being, interestingly! Funny how age changes your perspective.

I actually replayed Adventure of Link this weekend using the new Redux patch, on a NES flash cart, which aims to rebalance it. Magic spells cost half, some enemies are a bit easier, and when you Game Over you can restart at the palace you were in. Makes for a fun little game now, and not nearly as frustrating.

[ZipZap]

I'm wondering if my love for the first DC game is because it was excellent, or just nostalgia? I've got the remaster on GC, which I can emulate widescreen, so I might dive in and see how my memories live up. I have not played it since completing with all the characters back in 1999, nearly 20 years ago.

I actually think the first game is considerably worse! Like you, I enjoyed it a lot when it came out. It was bundled with my Dreamcast, so it was one of the first games I played on one of my favourite consoles, but going back to it, the camera is all over the place, the paths through the levels can be confusing, the frame-rate is poor, and it has a number of times where you're left wandering around the "adventure" stages with no clue what you're supposed to do to trigger the next part of the story. I can't believe I often see it so high in "Best Dreamcast" lists, because most of the games still stand up far better than this does. I can only assume it's all on nostalgia.

I haven't played SA2 extensively since it came out, but I did give some of the Sonic/Shadow stages a go a few months ago, and whilst it certainly wasn't amazing (or as good as I remember), it felt more polished than the original, and at least the aimless wandering around had been dropped. I do remember the treasure hunting stages being really boring, but as I have my original save file with the stages all unlocked, I happily skipped those!

[Sketcz]

I actually think the first game is considerably worse!

Perhaps I'll leave it be then. Let the fond memories remain, untouched.

[Protocol Penguin]

OoT didn't totally amaze me in 1998, but I absolutely loved it when I played Ocarina of Time 3D in 2011. Was bowled over how good it was, in a way I hadn't previously. Was also the first game on the 3DS which made me think the handheld was more than an overpriced white elephant. Might have to try it again, as our expectations of handheld games have increased massively in the last 7 years.

Tell you one Zelda game that disappointed when I (re)played it – Majora's Mask. The story and world-building as probably the best in the series, but I never got on with the structure. Dungeon design was arguably the least competent of any of the 3D Zeldas as well.

[S3M]

@Sketcz Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 where both pretty bad, 2 was a huge improvement and the soundtrack in both games rocks. Poor collision and camera issues hindered the games, the player is often killed through no fault of their own. If they are ever include in a top 10 of Dreamcast game then that top 10 is made by someone who know sweet **** all about the system. The designers behind the horrible chao mini-games in both clearly hated gamers, those games are just painful to play.

The only top 10 they should be in is 10 games that shouldn't be included in a top 10!

@Protocol Penguin I always really enjoyed Majora's Mask as it was a breath of fresh air compared to OoT, That's not to say it didn't include all the problems of OoT. I really enjoyed the puzzle side to it and the world building as you say was very clever. It's is a very difficult games to get to grips with however and a bit of a mind **** at times with the travelling back through time. I can see many gamers likely found it infuriating as a couple of mistakes in a day, could force you to repeat it. You also had to plan out what you were going to do each run, else you would end up wasting time. Great concept when I first did it, however it is not a game I would every replay due to all the event planning to unlock everything.

[Team Andromeda]

@Sketcz Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 where both pretty bad, 2 was a huge improvement and the soundtrack in both games rocks. Poor collision and camera issues hindered the games, the player is often killed through no fault of their own. If they are ever include in a top 10 of Dreamcast game then that top 10 is made by someone who know sweet **** all about the system. The designers behind the horrible chao mini-games in both clearly hated gamers, those games are just painful to play..

Sorry, I beg to differ. Sonic Adv is a brilliant Sonic game, it nails what a Sonic game should be and also it features some of the best Sonic levels ever seen in a Sonic title; I simply love Speed Highway and Windy City and the Lost World is also a great level. Yes it full of bugs, its aged, but its fun and Sonic controls brilliantly in 3D (something that is an issue in the modern games) and I also enjoyed the hub and adventure part of the game too

Sonic Adv II wasn't a patch on the Sonic Adv and not the best game at all, nice GFX engine though. Will agree on the soundtracks, Sonic Adv soundtrack was something else

[Goemon]

I’ve been going through the games of the SNES mini.
Finished Metroid, Castlevania, Zelda, most of the way through Megaman X and have started Super Mario RPG.

Never finished SMRPG originally, got to a cake boss from what I remember. Will see if I can stick it out this time.

[replicashooter]

Never played either of the 64 Zelda titles but the 3DS remasters look mighty fine plus they manage to crack double figures in terms of framerate unlike the flickbook style of the originals The Link Between Worlds title is pretty good, was quite a lot of fun.

This week I've been trying to get the last few stars in SMG. Gosh darn it does the challenge ramp up at some points in this one...