Is it just about the nostalgia?

[Leon Retro]

They've got so many franchises they could shake the mothballs off and bring out like F Zero for one and I think the concept of creating a machine for the hardcore gamer would also appeal to the coders and devs that are tired of cranking out derivative crap for the masses plus it would give them the competitive edge and difference in a crowded market where the big boys are already duking it out for the same throne.

The problem is, for whatever reasons, F-Zero GX & Out Run 2 didn't sell well. I guess Ridge Racer 6 & 7 also didn't set the world alight with their sales figures. It's a just a sad fact that because sales expectations are far higher(publishers want to sell 5 million copies, but in the old days 500,000 was seen as great) they don't feel like releasing games like Ridge Racer 8 or Out Run 3.

I think publishers have become obsessed with the belief that it's pointless to compete with Gran Turismo, Forza and other modern racing games of that ilk., It's all very apathetic, as I'm sure if Nintendo made a truly great F-Zero for the Wii U and marketed it well, it would sell well. Publishers just need to make arcade racers with lots of content and then market them properly.

You miss understanding the point . In terms of quality , the bar is now far higher than it was in the likes of 8 and 16 bit gens . We might not have the all time classics like in those days , but I think you're far less likley to buy some utter crap than you were inthe old days . Also I could really make a list of some utter crap racers like Spirt of Speed and so on .

With Forza Hor II, Forza 6, Drive Club, Project Cars and the likes of Dirt on the PC a half decent multi platform F1 game its a great time to be a racer fan . Though I miss the days of Geoff F1 games

Because of modern technology and development libraries, it's far easier to make a racing game that's at least reasonable. I think many developers back in the day struggled to put a polished racing game together - which is proven by the huge disparity in quality between racers back then. Developers just didn't have the power or tools to make development easy, so only the most dedicated and skilled devs produced anything impressive.

So, as much as you're very unlikely to buy a truly crap racer these days, it doesn't mean that something like Project Cars is a beautiful, inspiring creation. It still takes something truly special to impress people. Things really haven't changed in that respect.

One looks back with fondness ... I'm a huge F1 fan and how many people say F1 is boring and moan about One team domination, forgetting that even inthe good old days of 80's McLaren had a totally dominate season . How many of us Footy fans all say Football not as good as it was and how we all miss the good old days , Hell I find my self saying the same about going out drinking and how Pubs and Clubs aren't like they used to be, never mind how I miss the days of 80's Heavy Metal and 80's Gore Horror films

Well... We can all look back on football and F1 from days gone by and say they were great times. But that really is nothing but reminiscence. With classic music, films and games, you can still enjoy what they have to offer. I listen to a lot of '80s metal(it's my favourite music.), and watch '80s films, because they really do still deliver. You get plenty of people under 25 saying they love classic '80s music and films. Quality lives on... Which is why Hitchcock films are still shown all the time

For me nostalgia is certainly something to be careful with. I recently replayed Super Mario 64 which is a stone cold classic and it was good fun but I'd lying if I didn't say it felt like age was seeping in the cracks and it hadn't been surpassed despite my love of it.

I can play Super Mario World and sometimes not feel the magic. But on other occasions, I play it again and feel, once again, that uplifting feeling that only a true classic can deliver. So, as much as games age and will look more and more like a product of their time, your mood can really affect how you feel towards even your most cherished titles.

[Asura]

I'm sure if Nintendo made a truly great F-Zero for the Wii U and marketed it well, it would sell well. Publishers just need to make arcade racers with lots of content and then market them properly.

You're making the mistake of thinking that if a product can be seen as critically/objectively good, and you market the crap out of it, then it'll sell. That's not how things work. No amount of marketing spend can sway market forces for luxury products (stuff like video games, which no-one really needs). Consider, for example, the Zune; enormous marketing spend and a good product, but poor sales.

Apple like to suggest they're advertising gods but really, their skill has laid in getting a good understanding of the market direction and exploiting it at just the right time.

The best ever F-Zero game, the very best racer in that genre ever, put with a massive advertising campaign will probably sell a bit more than F-Zero GX (taking the install base for the platform into account as a factor).

[Leon Retro]

You're making the mistake of thinking that if a product can be seen as critically/objectively good, and you market the crap out of it, then it'll sell. That's not how things work. No amount of marketing spend can sway market forces for luxury products (stuff like video games, which no-one really needs). Consider, for example, the Zune; enormous marketing spend and a good product, but poor sales.

When I say "market it well", it's because I remember Out Run 2 sold terribly at launch for the Xbox, because the marketing wasn't good. But when some gamers decided to buy it for a bargain price 6 months later, many went on Live and told me they wish they had bought it at launch, as it's such a fun game and a nice change from the more simulation type of racers.

So, if people aren't informed as to why a game like Out Run 2 is fun and something to get excited about, they will just pass it by. It's only entusiasts that grabbed Out Run 2 on launch day.

But of course, you can never guarantee success. Out Run 2 would probably never have sold 5 million copies, however much marketing Sega had done.

The thing is, though. I can appreciate why Out Run 2 was seen as lacking by journalists, as it was another arcade racer that didn't have tons of new content created for the home. Sega really should have taken the game and added loads of new routes and fun/interesting multiplayer modes.

With F-Zero GX, despite it being great, I think it being on the GameCube(not a very popular Nintendo console) is what spoiled its chances of being a huge hit. It was popular and well-regarded, but for various reasons - being on the GameCube and with a lack of online racing - it didn't grab mass market attention.

These days, because we're all used to simulation racers with realistic graphics, and many people are getting bored with them, I think far more gamers would be willing to embrace arcade-style racers. But the developers would certainly have to make sure the content is there to meet modern gaming standards. Just look at the success of Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U; it's sold a very impressive amount of copies for a console that has sold a relatively small amount. Publishers need to forget about the lack of success for games like Out Run 2 & F-Zero GX and realise why they failed to win people over. Then they need to go back to the drawing board and make some fun arcade-style racers that I think could sell very well these days.

[nakamura]

Wipeout had good marketing but people just don't want those sorts of racers.

[Asura]

Wipeout had good marketing but people just don't want those sorts of racers.

WIpeout 2048 had one of the best opening sequences ever.

[wakka]

That was a brilliant opening FMV - I loved the game too, although that's not a particularly common opinion!

As others have noted, I don't think public appetite exists in sufficient quantity for a game like Outrun 3 or F-Zero NX (do you see what I did there? I almost feel it might happen now!). It's sad for people like us, but it's true. If Nintendo did make the fabled next F-Zero, it would only sell to a niche of the market (most of whom would complain loudly that it's not as good as the first one/X/GX/whatever).

While we're on the topic of Nintendo, I also think it's unrealistic to hope that they aim to become a sort of specialist 'hardcore' manufacturer. They will never aim for this, and they shouldn't - their only hope of being truly successful and relevant is to be mass market, and that's undoubtedly what they'll be aiming for with NX. What Nintendo need isn't a new F-Zero, but more games like Splatoon - fresh, fun games in tune with the public mood (online MP shooters being very much the genre du jour). They will forever circle the drain by relying on their existing franchises, even long neglected fan-favourites.

[Team Andromeda]

Well... We can all look back on football and F1 from days gone by and say they were great times. But that really is nothing but reminiscence. With classic music, films and games, you can still enjoy what they have to offer. I listen to a lot of '80s metal(it's my favourite music.), and watch '80s films, because they really do still deliver. You get plenty of people under 25 saying they love classic '80s music and films. Quality lives on... Which is why Hitchcock films are still shown all the tim

I still love Heavy Metal and miss the days of Pantera and the old Sepultura Ect , but how much of that is also down to growing up ?. Ask my parents what was the best age for music and films and it be the bloody 50 and 60's. My mum always bangs on about how Rugby isn't the sport it once was , how good Wales used to be and all that; even though Wales in the last few years have been more successful than ever

Think like with games, so much of it is looking back with rose tinted glasses

The problem is, for whatever reasons, F-Zero GX & Out Run 2 didn't sell well. I guess Ridge Racer 6 & 7 also didn't set the world alight with their sales figures. It's a just a sad fact that because sales expectations are far higher(publishers want to sell 5 million copies, but in the old days 500,000 was seen as great) they don't feel like releasing games like Ridge Racer 8 or Out Run 3.

I think the trouble was inthe old days you could make the likes of Outrun with like a 6 man team and develoment time and costs were tiny , so you didn't need to sell a million plus copies. Now a game like Outrun III would need like a 30 man team from the get-go . Also we just aren't willing to spend ?50 on short games anymore ... Just look at how many of us shooter fans are saying the new Darius is overpriced , but inthe 90's I would think nothing of spending ?60+ on a import shooter

[nakamura]

The price of Darius isn't an issue because of the size, it's because it's ?30 on Steam.

[Team Andromeda]

The price of Darius isn't an issue because of the size, it's because it's ?30 on Steam.

Seems is to some and I also think most like to play shooters on the consoles. Back in the old days I wouldn't think twice of spending ?50 on a shooter more so if it was a Tatio or Darius shooter. These days that's not always the case

[speedlolita]

All games are cheaper on Steam.

[acidbearboy]

I think a big issue with pricing these days is not just value for money relating to game length, but also a lack of desire for replayability and that fact that digital games cannot be resold to recoup some of that initial outlay. If you paid ?60 for a game in the 90s,chances are you would play the hell out of it before buying something else for ?60 or trading it in. There weren't hundreds of games available for pocket money prices back then.

[Team Andromeda]

I think a big issue with pricing these days is not just value for money relating to game length,

That's the big issues these days . Back inthe 90's a game like Contra III could be done in a couple of hours and one sitting, same for the likes of Streets of Rage and games like RR only needed one track. That just won't cut it these days .

I know I've changed , wouldn't think twice about spending over ?50 quid on importing a new Darius or Taito shooter, these days that's not the case at all

[Asura]

I think a big issue with pricing these days is not just value for money relating to game length, but also a lack of desire for replayability and that fact that digital games cannot be resold to recoup some of that initial outlay. If you paid ?60 for a game in the 90s,chances are you would play the hell out of it before buying something else for ?60 or trading it in. There weren't hundreds of games available for pocket money prices back then.

The lack of trade-in value is a factor. Back when the N64 was contemporary, I regularly bought full-price games for the machine - but similarly, I sold my used games back to the shop for ?30 or so. It meant that each game cost me about ?20 or so.

[Leon Retro]

Wipeout had good marketing but people just don't want those sorts of racers.

WipeOut succeeded in the PS1 era, as it felt quite fresh and exciting. The marketing was also great, so it grabbed the attention of the casual market.

But when consoles became far more powerful with the PS2 generation, people became totally focused on more realistic car racing sims and rally racers.

Although, the gem that stands out is the Burnout series, which had three games in the 128-bit era and sold well. Burnout, though, had a lot of content, so you could spend ages going through it. Whereas Out Run 2 had a fraction of the content and therefore the game just didn't stand up to the standards of the time. Out Run 2 in the home was great for enthusiasts, but even they had to recognise why it failed: because it wasn't adapted for the home where people expect lots of content.

I think the trouble was inthe old days you could make the likes of Outrun with like a 6 man team and develoment time and costs were tiny , so you didn't need to sell a million plus copies. Now a game like Outrun III would need like a 30 man team from the get-go .

Modern games that fail in the market still have huge teams behind them, so publishers are always taking a risk when they make a new property. There are only an elite selection of brands that are guaranteed to sell well.

So, is it better to make a really fun, inspired arcade-style racer with lots of content that will feel different to Gran Turismo and Forza, or try to copy those games and fail? Racing game developers tend to play safe and try to copy the big guns, but usually fail.

The Project Gotham series was at least something distinct, but Microsoft abandoned the series. The racing genre really is stale, so as much as Gran Turismo 7 will probably sell well, I think gamers would welcome some really fun arcade racers with lots of content. The time is right for that to happen.

That's the big issues these days . Back inthe 90's a game like Contra III could be done in a couple of hours and one sitting, same for the likes of Streets of Rage and games like RR only needed one track. That just won't cut it these days .

So it either means developers accept modern standards and make fresh, inspiring games, or play safe and copy COD, GTA, Gran Turismo, Left for Dead etc.. You'd think publishers would be happy to have huge hits and also make some games that will just sell well, but they seem to want everything to be a stellar hit that sells over 5 million copies. It's a very negative time for the industry, despite games looking incredible compared to what we had 10 years ago and before. Amazing flashy graphics don't satisfy me thoug, I need games that inspire me with something distinct and fun about them.

[Team Andromeda]

So it either means developers accept modern standards and make fresh, inspiring games, or play safe and copy COD, GTA, Gran Turismo, Left for Dead etc

The blame lies with us Gamers at the end of the day. If more of us bought the likes of Out Run II, PGR 4, Blur and so on . Then we'll be havig sequels to the likes of them . Also if one goes back to the 32 bit days lots of the old classic games and developers were dying a death and that was also true of the 16 bit days to a point .

Hell There was than EDGE interview with Archer MacLean in like Edge 10 ; Where he was having a pop at the industy and how it was all men in suits deciding on what games could or not be made and how it was all getting to be safe bets