Retro Arena: Neo Geo Scrolling Beat 'em Ups

[Samuray]

As soon as NGDev appeared I hoped they'd be making a scrolling beat 'em-up. It just turned out to be euro style shooters and then the entirely pointless Kraut Buster (seriously, it's just a crap Metal Slug without any of the charm). I don't think they have what it takes to produce a top quality beat 'em-up.

I just looked at a video of it in action - and it looks like a pale imitation of a Metal Slug game. The graphics look reasonable - and I guess it might be reasonably fun to play, but I won't be in a rush to play it.

We'll see about "Kraut Buster" .....yes, it's a hommage that stays very close to the source material, but guess what? I'm STILL looking forward to it because there's no new "Metal Slug" coming, at least no yet.

In general, NG DEV really surprised and convinced me with their games. I wasn't too hot for them at first either but then I got to play "Razion", and whoooo boy, does that rock! I acquired their other games after that and to me only "Last Hope" is of slightly iffy quallty....it's just way too hard and not too excellent, design-wise. It's still fun to give it go every now and then though, especially when you have friends over and you can all die together, again and again.

Don't have "Fast Striker" yet (but soon). "Gunlord" and "Neo XYX" are fantastic, though. In my opinion. So I have great hopes for a beat'em up from those guys, should they ever try to make one. They're just a small team though and shmups are easier to make, so it's understandable that their next game after KB will be another one of those. A vertical one, I believe.

[Leon Retro]

"Gunlord" and "Neo XYX" are fantastic, though. In my opinion.

Those two are the best games they've created. Fast Striker is also pretty good.

Their games have a very Euro Amiga vibe about them, which means they feel a bit bland to some degree, but the quality is high enough to admire the effort the team puts in to their creations. I would say they're 7/10 sort of games in my book - so good but not great.

Sturmwind is the modern indie shooter that really impressed me on the Dreamcast. Everything about it is top notch.

[Colin]

Razion is the only decent thing they’ve done to date for me personally. I bought Gunlord on AES but thought it was utter garbage, but in saying that I hate Turrican too, so it likely didn’t have a chance with me.

Absolutely love Sturmwind on DC though.

[vanpeebles]

Their games have never appealed to me, they look out of place on the neo geo. They don’t even have a neo style, as said above. I always thought they looked like well coded amiga games.

[BigDeadFreak]

Their games have never appealed to me, they look out of place on the neo geo. They don’t even have a neo style, as said above. I always thought they looked like well coded amiga games.

This sums it up perfectly, for me. From a technical and business point of view what they've done is very impressive. To make money out of selling Neo Geo games can't be easy and some of the latter titles were really well made. They also got dogs abuse on neogeo.com which was sad to see. There were some really ungrateful people on there who just seemed determined to **** on everything they did and cry like a bunch of entitled babies if the games weren't exactly what they wanted.

Still, not my cup of tea though and certainly not for £400. If a Japanese developer was to make something for the Neo I'd be much more interested.

[Asura]

There were some really ungrateful people on there who just seemed determined to **** on everything they did and cry like a bunch of entitled babies if the games weren't exactly what they wanted.

This, unfortunately, is the internet these days.

It's all about "false equivalency". There are people who see something they don't want, or something which isn't aimed at them, and they go berserk. They have this strange way of seeing things that's like "what, we get this instead of a better thing?" when the obvious answer to that is "no, you get that instead of nothing at all, and if you keep sabotaging this, that's what you'll get".

It's like the furore over the recent Thundercats cartoon, and that's even worse, because those people did get a version that was for them back in 2011.

[Leon Retro]

I bought Gunlord on AES but thought it was utter garbage, but in saying that I hate Turrican too, so it likely didn’t have a chance with me.

Yeah, it's very much like Turrican, so definitely not for people who don't enjoy that series.

Absolutely love Sturmwind on DC though.

Easily the most stunning and enjoyable indie shooter of recent times. It's the sort of quality product that I really want to support.

There were some really ungrateful people on there who just seemed determined to **** on everything they did and cry like a bunch of entitled babies if the games weren't exactly what they wanted.

I guess they are people who can't stand Euro shooters. But it is stupid moaning about games like Fast Striker being too Euro style, because the developer is European and that's the style they obviously feel comfortable with. Although, Neo XYX shows that they can craft a shooter that has a Japanese vibe.

[_SD_]

I do find it quite odd that the only people developing original games for the Neo on a professional level are a couple of German guys... I’d have thought/expected(?) that there would have been at least some sort of Far-Eastern independent development scene going on.

[Leon Retro]

I’d have thought/expected(?) that there would have been at least some sort of Far-Eastern independent development scene going on.

We got a few Japanese indie shooters after the Dreamcast stopped being produced, but then it stopped and we had to rely on European devs for new Dreamcast & AES shooters and action games.

I can only wonder why this is the case? Maybe it's to do with Japanese coders not feeling there is much money to be made from embracing the Dreamcast & AES fanbase.

[Asura]

I do find it quite odd that the only people developing original games for the Neo on a professional level are a couple of German guys... I’d have thought/expected(?) that there would have been at least some sort of Far-Eastern independent development scene going on.

Japan has always had a thriving indie scene, but it tends to be confined to PC, apart from the few console things like the Dreamcast shooters.

[_SD_]

Ah yes, I’ve seen that there’s quite the doujin scene for shmups and Vs. fighters on PC... I just find it odd that these guys don’t bother with consoles. Most of the shooters I’ve seen could easily run on Dreamcast hardware and that’s a potentially healthy revenue stream just from Western shmup fans.

Oh well, but on a side note Beats of Rage is getting a Neo port...

[Colin]

Oh well, but on a side note Beats of Rage is getting a Neo port...

It is? Physical or ROM? Hoping I can just add that to the NeoSD!

[_SD_]

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?270287-Beats-of-Rage-NeoGeo-port

[BigDeadFreak]

This, unfortunately, is the internet these days.

Sad but true.

The fact is people have four options:
1) Quit your moaning and buy the game
2) Quit your moaning and don't buy the game
3) Quit your moaning, get off your lazy arse and make a better game yourself
4) Moan

Guess which one most people choose.

[QualityChimp]

Sorry I'm late to the thread, I hadn't played all the games, but I rectified that last night!

I had played Mutation Nation before and other than enjoying the assonance of the title, I couldn't remember much about it.
I knew the enemies changed into animals, but the first wave didn't, so I thought I'd recalled wrong, but they soon started morphing.
Part of the fun was seeing what they would change into next. I particularly liked the stag beetles.

Combat-wise, it's a bit restricted. Every body else seems to have a longer reach, so you're constantly manoeuvring underneath to get in close. There's not many options of attack and it only uses the buttons for attack, jump and special. The jumping attacks always seemed to result in you getting hit, but the uppercut move was useful. You can't smash any objects or pick up weapons.

It's a great-looking game though. I loved seeing all the environments they'd conjured up and the levels are really long, with multiple bosses throughout. I quite liked the truck level with the electric boss at the end. All the bosses take some damage and have a battle-damaged sprite too.



The main character was also pretty cool and when you're low on energy, he starts puffing and panting. This is one of the many things that reminded me of another of my fave scrolling beat 'em ups, Gang Wars.



Robo Army was probably my least favourite with some pretty clunky combat. I quite like the design (robooooots!) but I preferred the P2 robot that looked like the guy from Cromartie High.



Bonus point for a boss that looks like me:


I think this one would particularly benefit from a second player to help with the crowd control.

On to the Sengoku series. I played all three games and there's a notable difference in the first two games and the third one, because it was developed in 2001, after SNK had filed for bankruptcy (2000) and started farming its licences out to other companies like Eolith and Yuki Enterprises.

Sengoku 3 was produced by a small company called Noise Factory (and also worked on Metal Slug 4 and King of Fighters: Maximum Impact). They had previously made Gaia Crusaders and Sengoku 3 runs off of the same engine.

In the early 90s, you had Capcom and Konami smashing it out of the arcade with hits like Final Fight, KotR, TMNT and The Simpsons. SNK was doing a lot of "me too" games but their first, Burning Fight, couldn't compare.
The general idea of the Sengoku games is that modern day is getting invaded by a past era full of samurai ghosts and I think the game really benefits from having a mix of your cliched street punks, but then teleporting to the past to fight samurais and other monsters.

The first game is easily the roughest of the three with some comparatively poor animations and sprites. I'm not sure what his legs are doing when he's walking. It's also the toughest of the three with some harsh restrictions. You're bare knuckle against the enemies until you pick up a power-up orb that gives you one, then two swords. The problem is, these are usually dropped by enemies whilst you're in a fight, they only stay for a few seconds and are in the air, so you have to stop fighting, maybe take a hit and navigate exactly underneath it and perform a jump. I missed so many of these for being a millimetre out and taking a hit for my troubles. :/

There are good ghosts in the past two and you can change into them, to make things easier, apart from the dog.
The dog is rrrrrubbish and just gets you killed. What were they thinking?

They say that football is a game of two halves, but Sengoku 2 sees you getting a sword from the start and cutting every single enemy in half. It's cool at first and you're even slicing lanterns, but it's a bit repetitive after a bit.


The game starts in ancient Japan this time and straight away you're fighting samurais and soldiers, including some of those basket head guys that I've loved since the Lone Wolf and Cub films.



The ghost characters are a lot better this time, with a kabuki mask clown being most useful with a massive staff.
Oh hey, the dog's back, maybe he's better this time? Nope! Still rrrrrubbish.

This was a real improvement over the first and was a lot more fun to play. There are some nice grpahical touches aside from the enemy deaths like badduns chasing women in the background, enemies running from the distance to the fight you and some nice parallax scrolling. I liked the idea of the game being set at different times you fight a variety of enemies like WW2 soldiers in "194X". Although the appearance of basketheads in this era is confusing!

Sengoku 3 came out in 2001, eight years after part two and there's a massive difference in graphics. I find it interesting the other people in the thread not enjoying this one as I found it had the most complex fighting. You could use your sword or fists, gain two special moves and a safety move and also pick up shurikens and other projectiles.



The main move is a little slow if you don't connect, so you're risking getting hit if you don't time it right. I think a punch adds more to the special meter and you can grab and throw enemies at others for a little crowd control.

I played all three characters and Kegatsura was my fave. He looks badass, has some great special moves and his animations are the kind of thing modern pixelartists try to emulate. Look:


So, my order is:
5. Robo Army (not much fun)
4. Sengoku 1 (too hard to be fun)
3. Mutation Nation (limited combat but great visuals)
2. Sengoku 2 (great theme and action)
1. Sengoku 3 (complex fighting and gorgeous graphics)

Thanks for another top thread, Leon!

On a side note, has anyone played the Korean game, "Black Touch", which sounds like a porno, but is actually a fast-paced beat 'em up that yoinks a load of sprites from other games?