Generic Emulation Options

[wakka]

I've been playing the 'tinker with RetroArch' game myself recently. The problem is that the tinkering can be endless. After a certain point you just have to stop and play an actual videogame

[dataDave]

Agreed. But then I can't do that if I'm noticing additional delay after adding my favourite shaders I've settled on.

I must have wasted hundreds of hours doing that. This is another reason why I love the MiSTer so much. It works just like a console with maybe a handful of additional options.

EDIT: Here were my last (and final) attempts: https://bordersdown.net/threads/1262...=1#post2373072

[wakka]

Haha I love that underneath that post, Speedy is going on about how we need convex LCDs again!

Yeah, the Mega Bezel project is exactly what I've been playing around with recently. You can get some really nice results (as seen in your screenshots from a couple of years ago). It certainly beats raw pixels.

I haven't really noticed lag to be honest but I don't think I'm nearly as sensitive to it as you are. Also I've basically spent all my time tinkering and very little time playing...

Once I've beaten Yakuza Zero (my main game atm), I think I'm going to settle in to go through SotN with a nice Mega Bezel preset though.

QC, it's definitely worth having a look at these shaders when you setup your machine. I agree with Dave, I would aim to get RetroArch going as a first port of call. It works well as a console-like setup, it's very much designed to be used on a TV with a pad.

[dataDave]

Here's a good guide on reducing controller latency: https://getonstream.com/how-to-reduc...troller-on-pc/

Follow that to the letter.

Here's a video of the most important part:

I do this with all my controllers for noticeable improvements.

[MartyG]

If you're noticing lag on an Xbox you'll likely notice it on a Pi, too.

It sounds like you have many months of tinkering around with RetroArch ahead of you. I spent years doing that and never ended up 100% happy. :/

Finding a controller/joystick with the absolute lowest latency is the best advice I can give.

(I still need to look into that Onion OS query, too!)

Difference between spending £50 and half a grand on a Mister - if you're emulating at a software level, it's unrealistic not to expect a little bit of extra lag due to the nature of the beast. Unless you're super serious about perfect emulation, I still think a Pi is the most cost-effective solution.

[ZipZap]

Talking of tinkering with Retroarch, people rave about run-ahead, but whenever I've tried it, even just 1-2 frames, I always seem to have a weird glitch where after I stop moving the player sprite will jump backwards a frame.

So for example, I may be pressing down on the d-pad and my character will be moving down the screen, when I let go of down, the character will move up slightly.

I play a lot of shmups and have noticed this with everythnig from older games like Gradius up to more modern Cave titles. It's visible at full speed, but I've recorded my screen in slow motion to confirm it's definitely happening.

My computer should easily be up to the task. Anyone else notice this?

[dataDave]

Difference between spending £50 and half a grand on a Mister - if you're emulating at a software level, it's unrealistic not to expect a little bit of extra lag due to the nature of the beast. Unless you're super serious about perfect emulation, I still think a Pi is the most cost-effective solution.

It is.

I came to realise I'm more serious about my personal time. I'd much rather take on a side-gig for a couple of days work which will pay for a MiSTer as opposed to spending days spread across years trying to dial in both inputs/performance and shaders perfectly with RetroArch/Pi, which is impossible anyway, as you say - so then I end up quitting and not playing anything at all, or just going back to the Wii VC. I'm so glad I never have to do all that ever again.

Until the MiSTer came along it was a choice of either real hardware and EverDrives (at massive cost, space/cables/dust nightmare, mods, maintenance, etc.) or emulation with a Pi/PC (compromises and never-ending tweaking).

[dataDave]

Talking of tinkering with Retroarch, people rave about run-ahead, but whenever I've tried it, even just 1-2 frames, I always seem to have a weird glitch where after I stop moving the player sprite will jump backwards a frame.

So for example, I may be pressing down on the d-pad and my character will be moving down the screen, when I let go of down, the character will move up slightly.

I play a lot of shmups and have noticed this with everythnig from older games like Gradius up to more modern Cave titles. It's visible at full speed, but I've recorded my screen in slow motion to confirm it's definitely happening.

My computer should easily be up to the task. Anyone else notice this?

Yeah, I've spoken out about this many a time. I first noticed it when bouncing off of springs on Sonic.

Plus, you have to take the time to measure just how much run-ahead you require which is on a per-game basis. Carrying out this process will also highlight exactly how many frames the emulation is consuming as well, which can be depressing.

It's not worth it. Unless absolutely necessary you want to avoid run-ahead like the plague, tbh.

Think about this: The game's pace will have to make up for that dodgy out-of-place frame that it'd predicted wrongly, when/where does that get factored in? Does it claim a genuine frame back to compensate, or what? That has to be the case. That means you're also losing a frame elsewhere.

Bollocks to worrying about stuff like that. Really. I'd much rather do without and accept the fact that the emulation layer has taken that one frame. I used to allocate one frame for emulation, one for display, and one for wired USB input (my tolerance seems to be three frames additional) - however I'd always end up losing 5-7 frames depending on emulator core and game, pushed further out depending on how fancy I'd want the shaders. :/

Then you have to factor in that some games feature input delay by design. Super Mario World is one, and my game of choice for setting up emulators. That comes with three frames natively. Eliminating that lag means sacrificing accuracy.

[ZipZap]

Yeah, I've spoken out about this many a time. I first noticed it when bouncing off of springs on Sonic.

Plus, you have to take the time to measure just how much run-ahead you require which is on a per-game basis. Carrying out this process will also highlight exactly how many frames the emulation is consuming as well, which can be depressing.

It's not worth it. Unless absolutely necessary you want to avoid run-ahead like the plague, tbh.

Think about this: The game's pace will have to make up for that dodgy out-of-place frame that it'd predicted wrongly, when/where does that get factored in? Does it claim a genuine frame back to compensate, or what? That has to be the case. That means you're also losing a frame elsewhere.

Bollocks to worrying about stuff like that. Really. I'd much rather do without and accept the fact that the emulation layer has taken that one frame. I used to allocate one frame for emulation, one for display, and one for wired USB input (my tolerance seems to be three frames additional) - however I'd always end up losing 5-7 frames depending on emulator core and game, pushed further out depending on how fancy I'd want the shaders. :/

Then you have to factor in that some games feature input delay by design. Super Mario World is one, and my game of choice for setting up emulators. That comes with three frames natively. Eliminating that lag means sacrificing accuracy.

Considering I've seen some pretty hardcore players singing its praises, I'm really surprised this is standard run-ahead behaviour. People who will compain 5 frames latency is too much, but don't have an issue with their player sprite shifting by 2-3 pixels when they stop moving. It seems very obvious to me.

I've never understood the appeal of going lower than the real hardware and I've definitely noticed some unusual behaviour by pushing it too far, but I do find emulators feel laggy, so it's nice to reduce the latency a bit. I have a lot of consoles, so usually play console games on real hardware, but unfortunately I don't have a stack of arcade PCBs.

I can appreciate for a lot of people who just want to dip in and out that Retroarch is just fine, but I do plan on getting a MiSTer setup quite soon (or at least ordering one quite soon, who know when the DE-10 Nano will arrive!)