Sega Saturn in 2022 - Bad Idea?

[Wools]

After being introduced to The Sega Guys Podcast over the Christmas break, I've been reminded how brilliant Sega were and I've found myself staying up late at night, looking into Japanese Saturn’s, PAL Dreamcasts and the Analogue Mega SG.

I had a Mega Drive back in the day and have revisited the console at least twice over the years, playing all the big PAL UK games but haven't delved into the Japan only games. I also had a Dreamcast on UK launch day and have had the pleasure of playing all the best DC games over the years, both home and abroad, and still enjoy using the wonderful emulator Redream on my PC. I feel that overall, I had my fun with these 2 great systems.

But the Saturn is different. In the late Autumn of 1996, I had a choice to make; Do I ask for a PlayStation with Ridge Racer or a Saturn with Sega Rally for Christmas? I could only have 1 and I plumped for the PlayStation. I don’t regret the choice at all as the PS was mana from heaven with loads of games, demos and all my friends had one. But because of that, I missed the Saturn in its heyday and didn’t play the classics till much later when I picked up a pre-owned model. However, my love affair with Sega’s 32-bit classic was short lived as my console developed a fault a few months after I picked it up and eventually, I chucked it out when it stopped reading discs.

I want to rectify this.

I would love a Japanese Saturn along with some new Saturn controllers from Retro-Bit along with some of the classic games in 60hz goodness. But I’m concerned about the following and was wondering if any Saturn fiends here had any suggestions, before I go all in or not!

• Is buying an un-modded Japanese Saturn wise? I'm aware of CD drives dying / battery needs replacing etc and wonder if buying hardware in 2022 is a good idea.
• Are their any good solutions for getting a Saturn signal onto an HDTV through HDMI that looks good?
• Is their a guy or company who have an accepted mod I should take a look at and go through them instead?

Many thanks for any advice, and here's a tune I've had stuck in my head for the past few days as I've been obsessing over the Saturn.

[speedlolita]

Honestly? Quite an investment if you want it done well.

Saturn hardware and an ODE (this is the route I would explore) is around £200 and a RetroTINK 5X Pro is around £325 too (for the ideal exp with all the resolution switching.)

[Hirst]

To answer your questions:-

Q. Is buying an un-modded Japanese saturn wise?
A. Yeah go for it! I think as old CD-ROM consoles go they're pretty tough, my original launch PAL system still works fine and I use a Japanese one as my main system. I think they had some issues early on but it was down to luck, any of the survivors seem to be quite tough. I've never had any problems and both mine have had long use, they seem to be quite overengineered to me. In any case if they do fail, you can replace the laser but I'd probably just get another system myself. The battery in the back needs replacing every few years but it's literally a 30 second job with no tools, you just open the flap, pull out the old battery, stick a new CR2032 in there, put the flap back on. It's no big deal really - it only stores clock data, system preferences and save data. The latter fills up quick anyway so just get a memory cartridge and put anything you really care about on that as when it goes flat you lose the lot.

Q. Are there any good solutions for Saturn onto HDTV via HDMI?
A. I've never been keen on modding systems - my personal preference is to connect the Saturn's RGB Scart output into an external scaler and output HDMI that way. I personally use the OSSC, but there's also the Framemeister and Retrotink 5X along with some other solutions. None are particularly cheap but think of it this way - it's a solution you can use for all your other old consoles you might pick up.

Q. Is there an accepted mod?
A. As far as I know, nobody has done a HDMI kit yet.

What I'd say with the Saturn and costs is it really depends what you want to do with it. Some of the games cost an absolute fortune (mostly shooters) and if you're looking at those sorts of things you'll probably want to go with some kind of SD card solution. I like to take a bit of an alternative view though and say this - if you think about it, a lot of the best games on the system go for peanuts, most of the Sega-developed ones for a start. Absolutely loads of them go for well under a tenner, even a fiver sometimes. The Virtua Fighter 2 you mention above is probably one of the cheapest games on the system as well as one of the best.

The consoles themselves also aren't that expensive if you're not after some weird version - you can still get a decent grey Model 1 with a pad for about £70 if you look around. Budget another £20 for a nice Scart cable and you're away. The scaler is probably your biggest investment but again just think of it as something you can use for more besides.

It does have a bit of a reputation as a rich folks system but I live off potted beef sandwiches and I've got one. If you're wanting the real games I'd definitely say to go for a Japanese one - you can be paying a quarter of the prices of PAL/US games and they're usually in great condition thanks to simple (replaceable) standard jewel cases. I'd always say give the Saturn a try even if you don't want to spend a fortune, 90% of my favourite games on the system are cheap and readily available.

[Nu-Eclipse]

JPN Saturn is still on my console bucket-list so this is an excellent thread.

[MENTION=13863]speedlolita[/MENTION] [MENTION=7652]Hirst[/MENTION] Please keep the excellent information coming!

[dataDave]

I loved the Saturn. I even swapped my PlayStation (+ games) for one (+ games) at the end of 1996 and it was one of the best gaming decisions I'd ever made.

Do I need one now? No. Because quite frankly nearly all of the games have been ported/reproduced more faithfully elsewhere. I say that as a PVM owner who wouldn't even need to front the cash for an expensive HDMI scaler. Honestly, I've put a lot of thought behind it because I have a lot of fond memories of the system and it's something I could easily do without spending too much money.

- Daytona, VF2, NiGHTS, Fighting Vipers, Guardian Heroes + others are all on XBLA in HD, widescreen, and 60FPS.
- Sega Rally is on the PS2.
- All the Capcom and SNK fighters are all FPGA'd up, running natively on the MiSTer.

For me, at least, a Saturn just isn't worth the space.

Also, those Retro-Bit controllers are sub-optimal, by the way. I got one for my MiSTer and it turned out to be the fastest aging controller I've ever owned.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I loved the Saturn. I even swapped my PlayStation (+ games) for one (+ games) at the end of 1996 and it was one of the best gaming decisions I'd ever made.

Do I need one now? No. Because quite frankly nearly all of the games have been ported/reproduced more faithfully elsewhere. I say that as a PVM owner who wouldn't even need to front the cash for an expensive HDMI scaler. Honestly, I've put a lot of thought behind it because I have a lot of fond memories of the system and it's something I could easily do without spending too much money.

- Daytona, VF2, NiGHTS, Fighting Vipers, Guardian Heroes + others are all on XBLA in HD, widescreen, and 60FPS.
- Sega Rally is on the PS2.
- All the Capcom and SNK fighters are all FPGA'd up, running natively on the MiSTer.

For me, at least, a Saturn just isn't worth the space.

Also, those Retro-Bit controllers are sub-optimal, by the way. I got one for my MiSTer and it turned out to be the fastest aging controller I've ever owned.

"On the next episode of [MENTION=1482]dataDave[/MENTION]: MOOD KILLER!"...

Seriously though, I haven't been an XBOLLOX gamer since the 360 (despite the majority of my beat-em-ups being on my system, long put back in its box).

My TEST PS2 is also gathering dust.

Fair point about the FPGA stuff with MiSTer. Not sure I'll be copping one anytime soon though.

All in all, I could probably still just about justify a modern-day Saturn purchase, but I can appreciate the mileage varying for others.

[dataDave]

My 360 is still connected because of those games, and Perfect Dark of course. I don't even need to upgrade to a One or a Series.

[speedlolita]

At the end of the day it all comes down to preference.

Last year I picked up a JP launch Saturn, a memory card, a SCART cable and a 20-pin Fenrir. The games that require RAM expansion aside, I now have access to the Saturn library. I enjoy exploring the good and the bad on platforms and I think that ODE/flash carts are the best way to do so. Yes a lot of games have been ported elsewhere, or are ports that can be experienced far more accurately now at home but I believe there is merit in being able to appreciate them in their original form.

And I don't know about you guys but I'd sooner have a nice silent Saturn than a 360 or PS2 while playing games.

The TINK 5X Pro would be the best solution available but I think an OSSC would do a decent job too if you would be happier spending around £100.

Also not necessarily saying that you must go the ODE route but I think it is the best way to go from scratch. That said basically all of the SEGA developed games aren't especially expensive still so you may wish to go the CD route and keep it genuine.

[Wools]

Thanks for advice and chat so far [MENTION=13863]speedlolita[/MENTION] [MENTION=7652]Hirst[/MENTION] [MENTION=2970]Nu-Eclipse[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1482]dataDave[/MENTION] it's appreciated.

Emulation is okay but I feel the real deal is part of the appeal at this time and as the Saturn is one of the few consoles I've not induldged in. So having all the plastic goodness is part of the appeal. Although I'm fully aware, to do it right it'll be expensive. Although if Speedy is telling me it'll be pricey, maybe I'm in over my head now!

[Asura]

Certainly authenticity is cool, but personally I almost did this in 2021 but held off due to the leaps and bounds in FPGA along with the huge price of the gear.

I think by 2024 you'll be able to have an FPGA box for like £200 with flawless emulation of every Saturn game ever, coming through HDMI on modern, dependable equipment.

[Baseley09]

Get a 14" CRT
Get on Buyee/Yahoo Japan and bide your time, well priced games are still a thing. A number of Saturn classics are cheap as you like anyway.

[dataDave]

I don't care how noisy the 360 might be, just put the volume up a bit. Even if mine had tourettes I'd still prefer it over playing aged 32-bit ports which struggled tremendously and are quite easily among the most damning examples of aged videogames you can find. I say this as someone who loved Saturn Daytona/VF2, and used to get up early before school each day to play (I'd never gotten up early for anything, before or since). That was the best option we had back then. The options for playing these games today are wide, vast, convenient, and cost-effective.

If you're dead set on playing Radiant Silvergun and a few others then I get it. Jump in. I would too.

[Wools]

I know I don't want to just go full authetic and have a Japanese Saturn under my modern TV as it'll look like **** so I want some creature comforts like wireless controllers and an upscaler but I don't think I want the pure emulation option as I have that with my PC.

I think what I miss is the physcial colletion side as with just a PC and a Switch, I have all my gaming needs meet and as both are downloaded titles only, I have no mess to take up room in the house! But, after seeing those lovely Saturn Japanese games, I want to have some kind of collection in my life again and as I really have owned or played most great systems released since the mid 1980's, it feels like the Saturn is the one system I did want but never immersed myself in. I'm very aware not all the ports are up to scratch but the one's that are are pretty bloody good and the old charm, combined with the ability to actually buy and collect games is what I'm after.

Hmm, I feel more emboldened now! I think a white Saturn is what I feel when I think of Japanese Saturn's but the discolouration issue may put me off long term. This is Cool Saturn's are around £400 from Japan... Maybe I'm getting giddy now.

I think I do want a Japanese Saturn which is untouched which I can now start looking for but then to put it through an HDMI upscale solution solution is my next source to look into. Thanks to [MENTION=13863]speedlolita[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7652]Hirst[/MENTION] for the RetroTINK 5X Pro pointer. I watched [MENTION=1524]Yakumo[/MENTION] review his on Retro Core and he seemd to love his.

More research!

[wakka]

Go for it, the Saturn is tons of fun. Like Dave outlines, the biggest games did get ported to the 360, but there is absolutely reams and reams of stuff that has never been ported and can't be found elsewhere (including some big hitters like Panzer Dragoon Saga).

I think of it as a real Galapagos of a console. It was very much its own thing with a unique library of games, and it's almost a 'Road Not Taken' in terms of the direction mainstream gaming could have gone in the second half of the 90s.

So if I can outline what I think are your requirements:

1) Real, original Japanese hardware, possibly a sexy edition like a This Is Cool
2) The ability to play original discs
3) The ability to upscale for good picture quality on a modern display

My thinking on this would be to look at the following:

1) Good condition original unmodified hardware of your choice - £100 - £400+ depending on condition and what version of the machine you want. Don't forget you'll need a stepdown, too!

2) OSSC or RetroTink5X for upscaling purposes - used OSSCs often pop up on here for around ~£85 or can be had for about £160 new. The RetroTink5X runs about £360.

The OSSCs aren't as sophisticated as the RetroTink5X, but, to be honest, for Saturn purposes, the main bugbear of the OSSC (slow resolution switching) has never been an issue for me. It seems much more of an issue on PS1 and PS2. I've been very happy with the performance of my OSSC for Saturn (the picture is excellent even on an unfancy PC monitor), but the RetroTink5X is the splurge option with more future proofing for other retro systems.

3) Satiator - this is a cartridge which plugs into the video port on the back of your Saturn to let you play ISOs off an SD card. It runs about ~£190 plus shipping and tax.

I don't have direct experience of this (anyone who does please chime in to give more details!), but I've read good things about it. The reason I include this is because unlike other ODEs it will let you also play CD games, so you can get the original software you're hankering for AND have the option of playing ISOs.

I really would advise having some way of playing ISOs personally, for two reasons - firstly, a lot of Saturn game prices are bonkers. Personally I don't think it's worth shelling out £400, £500, £1000 for some of these games. If it's above a reasonable price level, it's great to have the option to just play it for free.

Secondly, the Saturn has a growing number of fan translations available, that you will need to be able to play ISOs to access. Sakura Taisen, Shining Force 3, Policenauts, and more can be played in full English this way. For me it's essential to have access to.

------

I reckon with those three things you'd be setup, personally (although it would be nice if someone like Speedy could weigh in with a view on the Satiator because, as I say, I don't have direct experience, just read good things).

My personal setup is slightly more old school, no ODE for me. I have a grey original model Japanese unit, modded by Speedy with a Phantom Universal chip and a modified BIOS (allows the playing of originals and CD-R copies from any region), plus UK PSU to alleviate the need of a stepdown. I plug that into an OSSC which gives a delightful picture on my PC monitor. I have a handful of original games but most play CD-R copies because of the aforementioned high prices and excellent fan translations available.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Hope that's at least somewhat interesting/useful.

[Asura]

I don't care how noisy the 360 might be, just put the volume up a bit. Even if mine had tourettes I'd still prefer it over playing aged 32-bit ports which struggled tremendously and are quite easily among the most damning examples of aged videogames you can find. I say this as someone who loved Saturn Daytona/VF2, and used to get up early before school each day to play (I'd never gotten up early for anything, before or since). That was the best option we had back then. The options for playing these games today are wide, vast, convenient, and cost-effective.

I have the PS3 versions of this, Virtua Fighter 2, Fighting Vipers and Nights: Into Dreams and they're absolutely fantastic.

That being said, I certainly have a soft spot for PAL Saturn originals of all of these, as they're such a big part of my childhood - Daytona USA in particular, as I remember opening it on Christmas Day.

The takeaway here though is honestly everyone with a PS360 should have the version of Daytona. It's amazing.