Retro|Spective 075R: Super Mario

[Nu-Eclipse]

It would be an immense challenge, also because so many people likely expect the volume of content they've reached now but I'd quite welcome a complete re-invention of the series. Essentially still a fighting game using the characters and fan service but playing absolutely nothing like the existing games, just a ground up reinterpretation.

Not an awful suggestion by any means, but given that we know Smash fans STILL love Melee and given Ultimate's obvious commercial success, would the core Smash fanbase accept Smash as they know it being essentially turned into something else? Breaking out of the shadow of the much established and much-loved Smash formula may well be the immense challenge you speak of and precisely why Nintendo might either leave the IP alone for a long, long time or just take the easy route and port Ultimate to future hardware (if the Switch's successor has BC then even better as they wouldn't have to do anything with Smash given the sheer quantity of content).

It's almost a shame that ARMS didn't catch on. There's an alternate reality where that could've been the Nintendo beat-em-up IP to take the flagship Nintendo fighter mantle from Smash.

[Asura]

By that logic, tournaments for SSFIIX, SFIII: 3rd Strike, SFIV-era and SFV shouldn't be a thing anymore, then?

I honestly don't think it's the same. I don't believe any tournament ran, say, SFIV and SFV has "headline acts". They might've had two games in the same series but one was clearly the definitive, promoted event and the other was a smaller, lower-key thing. Smash for some reason gets two headlines.

To be absolutely clear, here, though, my opinion is coloured by the fact that I don't like playing Smash at competitive level. I really enjoy it as a casual fighter but kinda just tune out the competitive scene. That's not something I can defend with any kind of impartial logic, so I won't try.

[Nu-Eclipse]

I honestly don't think it's the same. I don't believe any tournament ran, say, SFIV and SFV has "headline acts". They might've had two games in the same series but one was clearly the definitive, promoted event and the other was a smaller, lower-key thing. Smash for some reason gets two headlines.

Couldn't disagree more. For me, they are the same.

Older SF games obviously aren't headline acts at pro tournaments and especially not when the latest iteration will obviously take front and centre stage. But they're still massively popular to have enough of a buzz and scene around them that tournaments will still include them for playing. Your logic would clearly dictate that all older SF games should be discarded from the competitive scene because of that.

That aside, I too enjoy Smash casually and for the fanservice but no more than that. The boat for me picking it up competitively sailed a long, long time ago.

[Asura]

Your logic would clearly dictate that all older SF games should be discarded from the competitive scene because of that.

But I would be fine with that. I'm okay with those tournaments having exhibition events for Third Strike etc., but I prefer those events don't actively push older games, but instead encourage the community to nucleate around the newer game, which Evo did when Street Fighter V came out and replaced IV. The only exception would be in the event a new game is widely disliked, but even in that case practically everyone would stay with the older game.

[Neon Ignition]

They can either release a Super Smash Bros: Ultimate Deluxe for Switch 2 that packs in the DLC or just relies on B/C quite happily for me if it means any higher chance Mario Kart 9 makes it out the gate one day

[Neon Ignition]

Game 142 - Mario + Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey
The final M+L entry was this 3DS remake that was also the last Mario game released for the 3D handheld. Using assets from Superstar Saga, it provided a similar update with an additional content storyline focused on Bowsers son. The game was critically well recieved but a catastrophic failure for the franchise, selling so poorly that no Mario game was performed as badly since the days of the Virtual Boy, it remains one of the poorest selling games to feature Mario.




Victim of the last days of the 3DS?

[Nu-Eclipse]

But I would be fine with that. I'm okay with those tournaments having exhibition events for Third Strike etc., but I prefer those events don't actively push older games, but instead encourage the community to nucleate around the newer game, which Evo did when Street Fighter V came out and replaced IV. The only exception would be in the event a new game is widely disliked, but even in that case practically everyone would stay with the older game.

I really don't think that Melee and Ultimate existing in the same competitive tournament space does anywhere near the damage you seem to think it does. Ultimate is literally the most commercially successful entry in the franchise.

Obviously Capcom are not going to release SF6 as the new franchise flagship and then massively promote SFII: WW at the next Pro Tour, but older SF games get pushed just as hard as modern entries do at smaller indy tournaments within the FGC. It does SF as a brand no harm and nobody is out here demanding that there be one SF game and one only for all tourney play. It's the same with Smash.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 143 - Super Mario Maker 2
The sequel to the level creator title added an array of new assets to the level making options and in addition to that added a full fledged single player mode for players to work through. One of the biggest changes was the new inclusion of Mario 3D World elements and these additions led to positive reviews for the title and sales north of 8m units.





Did this later attempt Maker the Magic for you?

[Nu-Eclipse]

Super Mario Maker 2 >>>>>> New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

[Neon Ignition]

I had no interest in Mario Maker, level designer stuff just holds no real value to me as entertainment. I ended up with Mario Maker 2 during a slow period purely on the basis of it having some single player traditional content and it really was a pleasant surprise. Whilst I still didn't get much out of the level design side the game is still a fun platformer in its own right.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 144 - Mario Kart Tour
Containing new courses, city based courses and classic franchise tracks, Tour was intended as a mobile focused entry with simplified controls available to fit around the limitations of mobiles. With objectives, mini-games, races etc players earn coins and tickets that can be used to open content and customisation options with regular updates keeping people coming back. The game was been one of the big successes Nintendo has seen on mobile with over 200m downloads and a sizeable chunk of its track content now making the transition to console via DLC in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.




Pleasure in your hands?

[Neon Ignition]

Game 145 - Luigi's Mansion 3
Having managed to claw its way out of a dire fate, the franchise was permitted a third attempt with a full on title for Switch. The new game moved events to a large hotel taken over by ghosts and ramped up the production valies to becoming some of the systems very finest. With a new long, single player and multiplayer options as well, the franchise finally saw the success it had long deserved with sales currently in the region of 13m copies sold. The most notable addition in this entry is a goo clone of Luigi called Gooigi.





Was the third Luigi's Mansion a golden hour for the franchise and Switch?

[Neon Ignition]

For me, Luigi's Mansion 3 is *chefs kiss*
It looks absolutely stunning and I loved every minute of it, they perfected it on this run and I'm glad it did well

[Neon Ignition]

Game 146 - Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020
Yet another entry in the sporting franchise and the most recent one to date. Yet again reviews weren't great, most of the issues raised surrounding a lack of content for both single player and multiplayer gamers. 32 characters made the cut and following the Switch version Sega made another for Arcades. It's getting late into 2023 and time will tell if the next Olympic Games result in a new entry.




Gold medal stuff?

[Asura]

Game 146 - Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020
Yet another entry in the sporting franchise and the most recent one to date. Yet again reviews weren't great, most of the issues raised surrounding a lack of content for both single player and multiplayer gamers. 32 characters made the cut and following the Switch version Sega made another for Arcades. It's getting late into 2023 and time will tell if the next Olympic Games result in a new entry.




Gold medal stuff?