Retro|Spective 211: The Final Tour of Sega Saturn

[phillv85]

I've got a copy of Story of Thor 2 but it's also one I've never got around to playing.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 14 - Lunacy
One of the several interactive FMV games of the era, scores for this game were all over the place as reviewers either warmed or bounced off the title. The lead character explores the City of Mists, trying to uncover their forgotten past.




Lunacy to skip it?

[wakka]

Never heard of this one. I did play through D a while back, which functions in the same way (simulating first person exploration through FMV videos), and I've dabbled in a few minutes of Enemy Zero which uses the same technique.

Of all the archaic game styles, I honestly feel like this is one that is the toughest to go back to. I'm very tolerant of older gameplay styles in 3D, and even actively like some of them (I enjoy the deliberate clonking around of tank controls Resi, for example).

But movement in these games is excruciatingly slow. D is okay to play through, because it's only 90 minutes, but you're keenly aware that robbed of a feeling of 'Wow, the graphics are so good!', you're really getting very little in exchange for heavily, HEAVILY compromised navigation.

I would be interesting to see if anyone on here has an opinion on Enemy Zero, by the way? I want to play it but should I actually stick with it? Is it worth it in 2024, for someone who loves playing games of this era?

[Asura]

Never heard of this one. I did play through D a while back, which functions in the same way (simulating first person exploration through FMV videos), and I've dabbled in a few minutes of Enemy Zero which uses the same technique

....

I would be interesting to see if anyone on here has an opinion on Enemy Zero, by the way? I want to play it but should I actually stick with it? Is it worth it in 2024, for someone who loves playing games of this era?

Enemy Zero only had some of the game like that. A decent chunk was a pseudo-first-person-shooter. I loved it, fantastic game, I remember it was genuinely scary.

The only thing I hated about it was it had a design practice I despise. It both has save points and it limits how much you can save. So it's possible to "run out" of saves and face having to finish the entire rest of the game in one sitting.

I generally despise games that try to engineer how long you play a session; videogames exist for my entertainment, not the other way around.

Here's a question - does anyone remember a prototype Saturn game called VIRUS? I seem to recall seeing thumbnail pictures in Sega Saturn Magazine; it mixed FMV footage with real-time gameplay, I guess a bit like Fear Effect would later do.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 15 - Mr Bones
Playing a an animated skeleton, the game spans multiple genres and sees players traversing levels to stop a magician from raising an undead army. Mixing perspectives and genres with each new level some reviews called it generic whilst some loved how eclectic the mix of styles was.



The Bones of a Worthwhile Experience?

[Yakumo]

Mr. Bones is just bad. Typical crap that American studios were coming out with at the time.
What's odd is this actually got a release in Japan. At least over here it has good box art or should I say interesting box art.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 16 - Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
I almost skipped it because we've covered the franchise before but in the end relented because when talking about Saturn exclusives it feels like such a huge omission to make that it really should make the cut. The game had been planned for a PC port but that fell through, similarly a remake was announced and once again the first game made it to release whilst the second title vanished meaning that it has repeatedly been robbed of a wider audience and left bound to the original system.



Dragoon or Drag On?

[jonathan_ingram]

I really need to sit down and play Zwei properly, think I've only played the first 3 levels

[Wools]

I adored Panzer Dragoon and have recently been playing it on the Steam Deck. Even though it's aged, the opening level with the beautiful and reactive reflections, water spray combined to make such an atmospheric game. After the years of playing Rez, it's a lower paced game but in some ways, I feel even more connected to the world of Panzer.

However, I don't think I've ever played II in any capacity. I'll have to rectify that soon, will give it a go!

[CMcK]

Panzer Zwei is a great game. Builds on its predecessor with great set pieces and better visuals. A proper highlight in the Saturn library.

[Baseley09]

What a superb game, played the demo level on sega flash too mamy times. Some of the best 32bit graphics out there.

[wakka]

Zwei is great and I think improves on the first game in many ways.

I've only done fairly cursory runthroughs of both titles, I'm going go back to them after I finish Saga (which I'm currently playing) with fresh eyes.

[Neon Ignition]

Game 17 - Panzer Dragoon Saga
Like the shooter before it, Saga's reputation is high yet it remains firmly entrenched on the system that birthed it. Arriving right at the end of the Saturns life the game was a bold attempt to shift the franchise genre to RPG in a four disc epic that saw players travel through the skies and fully 3D towns and dungeons. The market realities buried the game and Sega opted not to give it another chance on either Dreamcast or other formats once the company went third party. An ambitious and well regarded title, its story and unique battle system remain lost on the masses.



A Bittersweet End to the Saturns Saga?

[wakka]

Okay, so I'm playing this right now (although a little bit on and off because I became busy at work and also had a nice weekend away in Finland and Estonia).

I've finished disc one - side note, I love and miss finishing discs in games being a thing! - and I'm moving forward in disc two.

And it's just great. It's such a cool game. I've been reading about its development in parallel, and it sounds like it was a nightmare. Playing it, I can see why. It's such a cool and ambitious title.

The battle system really stands out in particular. Instead of an ordinary turn-based menu system, it's kind of quasi real-time ATB. At any moment you can move your avatar between four different positions around the enemies you're fighting. A radar marks areas where you're completely safe from enemy attacks, where you're most vulnerable to major enemy attacks (and usually where you have the best vantage point on enemy weaknesses, too), and where you're vulnerable only to lesser attacks (but probably don't have visibility of the enemy weakpoint). Enemies also move themselves which forcibly shifts you from spot to spot on the radar - so from the first second of the battle, you need to stay on top of your positioning. You move at any time, you don't need to wait your turn.

On top of that, you have a regenerating cooldown meter that governs when you can attack. You can use a small amount of it to launch a 'standard' attack from your dragon's lasers or your handheld gun, or you can use two thirds or the full thing to launch more powerful magic attacks.

And on top of all THAT, you've got your standard RPG items you can deploy (uses one third of your bar), you can customise your gun with different attachments for different effects, and finally and most importantly you can shift your dragon's stats dynamically between being biased for standard attack power, magic attack power, movement speed, and defence. You can switch that up at any time inside or outside of a battle.

There's a lot going on, but it works so well and feels so engaging, even in the frequent random battles. I would love to see Atlus take a good look at how this works and incorporate something similar into future Persona games. They already have a great, fast-paced battle system, but there are fantastic ideas here that they haven't used and that I haven't seen any game use.

Reading about the development, they basically merged the shooting game experts of the first two PD games with developers experienced in RPGs. By all accounts the relationship was acrimonious. The shooting game devs wanted battles to resemble a true blue shooter. The RPG devs wanted a turn-based menu system. And the result is they kind of mashed these two styles together and somehow made it work brilliantly.

There is a lot more to say about this game, from its unique and melancholy atmosphere to its impressive graphics, but I think what has stuck me most is that on a mechanical level it is so satisfying to play. I really enjoy the navigation, about 70% of which is done via flying around on your dragon. It kind of reminds me of Metal Gear Solid in that it has so much going for it from an atmosphere and story perspective but then it just absolutely nails the core mechanical gameplay too.

[Neon Ignition]

When it came out I was working my way through most of the tail end releases on the Saturn and I circled PDS but it was one of the last that I went to. As much as people adore the first two games I was always fairly indifferent to them because they were short, simple arcady titles akin to Star Fox which I much preferred for that. Everyone at the time was in their peak FFVII hype mode and that game too had left me fairly indifferent, menu turn based RPGs feel too disengaged in their gameplay and FFVII felt more like a case of graphics whoredom rather than actually being that amazing to play. The idea of Panzer Dragoon as an RPG felt like a really off putting proposition but in the end I ended up trying it as the system was drying up.

I don't think I made it much past the first half hour before it had hooked me completely. The battle system was a revelation, it feels like the perfect balance between turn base and feeling involved without being an action based approach like FF has taken these days. The story is a slow burn but it really digs its claws in as it builds over the course of the four discs. It's a game that feels like Sega is throwing every trick the system has at it and once it wrapped up it was beyond frustrating that it was overlooked so heavily when the experience had been so much stronger than the successful RPGs were coming across as.

Like much of that back end of the Saturn, it was criminal that Sega buried the game with the system. Projects that screamed 'transfer to Dreamcast' as Saga never stood a chance releasing when it did even if people had paid more attention at the time. It felt like such a winding experience when Orta was announced and was another shooter, I still feel like Sega made a massive mistake not making Orta a PS2 based RPG but the sole little reprieve is they at least used Orta to act as a sort of Saga Epilogue.

A game that is quite genuinely heartbreaking to see still lost and one of the best ever made.