BPX093: The Greatest Phase Four MCU Movie

[Neon Ignition]

The greatest threat in the universe had been overcome and so the universe itself was broken open into multiple timelines giving birth to a multiverse of heroes and villains to explore.

That event brings us into Phase Four of our search.

To qualify the films have to share some level of on screen connection with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This means some narrative tissue rather than simply making use of the IP, as such multiple films are now part of the MCU however titles like the recent Madame Web are not.




As things stand, which is the best Phase Four movie and why?

[Dogg Thang]

Such a huge disparity in enjoyment here for me. I think No Way Home is superb and I really loved Shang Chi, which had exactly what I love in Marvel movies. And then there is a massive drop off to a bunch of movies that, some of which, I actively disliked. That's something I don't think happened in any other phase - even the weaker movies could be enjoyed for the popcorn nonsense they are. Not so much here.

[QualityChimp]

I wish I'd have seen No Way Home at the cinema rather than having the internet spoil it.
I still thought it was brilliant, though.

That list is preeeetty weak, though.
The Eternals is the worst of the ones I've seen and it's telling I've only just got to Love and Thunder, and I've not seen Wakanda Forever, whereas on some of these earlier polls, it was genuinely exciting waiting for a new Marvel film to hit the cinema, especially the crossover events.

Now, it just kind of plops onto D+ a month after the cinema.

I liked Black Widow, but it felt odd to watch after the events of Infinity War and seemed like a massive prep to have a new Black Widow.

Shang-Chi is flawed and the latter part is too CGI-heavy, but there's no denying it's a great origin film and the grounded action scenes on the bus and scaffolding were brilliant.
As a Kung Fu fan, it was great seeing some of my faves actors in a big movie.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, No Way Home is the easy king here but Shang Chi is a strong opening for a character that Disney is clearly dragging its heels hard on having appear again. Black Widow was okay but far too late in the game in terms of when it released. I'm fine with Doctor Strange, it's not amazing but I enjoy it more than the first one which was too similar to Iron Man 1. Love and Thunder is deeply flawed, Wakanda Forever is well made but really grinds out any remaining appeal of the character and setting whilst Eternals is just quite distantly the worst film on the list being flawed from almost every level.

[Lebowski]

Wow, that list made me realise how few of the newer marvel movies I've seen, I skipped Black Widow, Shang Chi, the Eternals, Morbius and the second black panther, i don't remember much about the second venom film and am questioning if I've seen it, I really don't feel like I'm missing anything as that's a pretty uninteresting and mediocre list of films. Wish I'd skipped Thor Love and Thunder as it felt like a music video and had weak story and casting.

Dr strange was decent, but a mess as a standalone film that requires you to have seen far too many marvel series films to get the most out of it.
I'd say Spider-Man is the best of this phase but even then its trading off past media and requires you to remember what happened in Spider-Man 2001 and all the subsequent films. I think if anything it's telling how much of the list is a tangled mess. it's become like a second job following the MCU at this point what with all the Disney plus series and movies that are being produced.

[Asura]

Similar thing to Dogg Thang, for me, Shang-Chi is so far ahead of the rest of the pack that it doesn't seem like a fair contest. That one just has an earnestness and a kind-of throughline, as well as feeling like it brings something fresh.

Then, of what remains, I enjoyed No Way Home and Dr. Strange 2, but they both felt a bit underwhelming, and I disliked how Strange requires you've seen Wandavision for its villain plot to make sense (maybe I just didn't like how it almost felt like Wanda's character has been assassinated).

The rest I actively disliked.

Loved the comedy in Black Widow, but it just feels like the most generic movie of the generic Marvel formula. Black Widow was a great chance to do a tense spy movie. People made fan posters of "Budapest" with Widow and Hawkeye years ago and honestly I wanted that. I also didn't like their approach to Taskmaster (disliking the villains will be a theme) who is now "used up" as an idea.

I have seen The Eternals twice and I remember not hating it... But I also struggle to remember anything that happened in it.

Wakanda Forever I kinda have a weird thing about; the actor who plays the sister of BP is some sort of weird outspoken Antivaxer? That kinda pulled me out of the movie. It introduced a whole other civilisation and Ironheart, so it was a packed movie. Again though, I don't remember all that much of it. The villain just seemed like a bit of a non-entity.

Thor: Love & Thunder kinda felt like if you took everything that could've gone wrong with Ragnarok and made it into a movie. I particularly thought it was a shame that the God-Butcher comes about and dies in a bad movie, because the idea of an apostate of the gods in a universe where the "gods" are just people is a fantastic idea for a villain.

[Neon Ignition]

Considering it's been 16 years now that the MCU has been running for - it's almost impressive at how consistently bad Marvel are with villains and all whilst being bad at them in a way that the films still remain enjoyable. They should have at least created a reasonable line up of iconic popular bad guys to go with the many heroes they've elevated into being A-tier characters but they still keep doing watered down incarnations that are bumped off as soon as they appear.

[Dogg Thang]

Wakanda Forever I kinda have a weird thing about; the actor who plays the sister of BP is some sort of weird outspoken Antivaxer?.

She was and then had the good sense to try to roll things back a bit and then she shut up about it rather than doubling down on it. Gina Carano could have learned a thing or two.

[QualityChimp]

I liked No Way Home, but it felt like it was standing on the groundwork laid by other directors and writers.
Like it was second-hand emotions, y'know?

That's why I chose Shang-Chi over it, even though I thought it was great.

[Dogg Thang]

I liked No Way Home, but it felt like it was standing on the groundwork laid by other directors and writers.
Like it was second-hand emotions, y'know?

That's why I chose Shang-Chi over it, even though I thought it was great.

I could easily support the choice of Shang-Chi but I'm not 100% sure I understand the No Way Home comment. Do you mean in the same way Infinity War and Endgame required the build up that the work of all the other movies did?

Even then, I wonder how much it's true for No Way Home. I hadn't seen the Garfield movies and he was my favourite Spider-Man in it.

[QualityChimp]

Hmmm, okay. Glad that it worked for you despite not seeing Garfield's films.
I really liked his two outings.

I guess the difference between No Way Home and Endgame is that the latter was all part of the same story from fairly early on. Thanos was in Avengers 1, for example.

For me, it just felt like I'd emotionally invested in those Spideys previously.

If you'd not seen the Garfield films and didn't know he was going to be in it, how did you feel when he appeared if you didn't care about his character beforehand?

[Asura]

Oh don't get into that We had that argument years ago about to what proportion the MCU movies are movies and to what proportion they're a series.

Speaking personally I entirely get what you mean, QualityChimp. In my eyes, Endgame was the culmination of the MCU's work. No Way Home was copying your older two brothers' homework because they did the same assignment as you a few years ago and a few years before.

[Dogg Thang]

If you'd not seen the Garfield films and didn't know he was going to be in it, how did you feel when he appeared if you didn't care about his character beforehand?

I guess same way I invest in any character in a movie that I've not met before: through their actions and interactions in the movie itself. Garfield played that character beautifully and brought both levity and weight. I didn't need any previous context to find the character compelling. Having gone back and watched his movies, I do think No Way Home did a great job at building on every movie it referenced (although why Electro was so different became a question for me) but the movie was entertaining regardless of those older movies.

[Neon Ignition]

In some ways No Way Home is a better written film even if the beats feel liek they lean on the history. To mix so many characters, give Holland a worthwhile arc, bring closure to outstanding character arcs from two other incarnations and a resolution to multiple villains - some of which portions of the audience aren't familiar with feels more complicated than Endgame which was a culmination but effectively a more assured success by that point and less inspired in its timey wimey cheese out plot. But I can see the other side too, for me the prior two Spider-Man films were weaker efforts than what had gone before so how much do I attribute No Way Home's superiority to elements unrelated to Hollands era? Likely why I really enjoyed it but rumours of a back to basics fourth Holland entry doesn't excite me.

[Asura]

I guess same way I invest in any character in a movie that I've not met before: through their actions and interactions in the movie itself. Garfield played that character beautifully and brought both levity and weight. I didn't need any previous context to find the character compelling. Having gone back and watched his movies, I do think No Way Home did a great job at building on every movie it referenced (although why Electro was so different became a question for me) but the movie was entertaining regardless of those older movies.

I feel similarly; I haven't seen the Garfield movies either. Maybe it's just me... But I felt he acted circles around Holland & Maguire whenever the three of them got time together onscreen.

EDIT: Oh, just remembered, something I disliked about No Way Home - the movie is predicated on having the world "forget" who Peter Parker/Spider-Man is, after the fantastic post-credits seen of Far From Home.

That in itself wasn't a problem, but I felt let down we didn't get one complete movie between these two where Peter spends the film as a fully public Spider-Man.