Like usual these days, only tuned in for the last of the vote. I would never say the UK entries were high art but this years was better than most I've heard in the run up. The show is so brazenly biased, something the public vote has done little to change, that the UK getting any score should be seen as a win. As for the winner? Man - that was utter ****. The second place one though? And getting 12 points from the UK? In this political climate? I mean... I thought we'd seen enough to show its true opinions on things but talk about a show of support in voting to sit along side todays headline:
-
Last edited by Neon Ignition; 18-05-2025, 00:40. -
Each phone number can vote 20 times, how is that not easily rigged?Comment
-
We started late, so were able to skip a lot of the pap and get to the songs.
This did mean that I missed your live commentary, MartyG , apologies, but I've caught up now.
Always enjoy your annual summary.
Definite absence of wads this year, though.
We had people from the UK, Ireland and Germany watching it in our house, so big cheers for the UK and German acts.
Even this jaded metaller heard Remember Monday's track on the radio and enjoyed it! I thought the revelations after a boozy night out was fun and the harmonies on "what the hell just happeneeeeeeed" were brilliant.
Germany was actually probably most like to heard again on the radio/in clubs with its catch baller chorus.
The busty woman shouting "I'm coming" from atop a flying giant mic stand was pretty memorable.
Crazy legs cappuccino guy and the sauna guys were a blast of classic Eurovision silliness, but seemed to do mediocre in both votes.
The whole "public" voting thing was highly suss, though.
Israel broke rules by the government paying for promotion of the song on various streaming platforms.
Personally, I thought the song was forgettable and the jury votes agreed with the song in the latter half of the table after their votes.
Mobile footage from in the arena showed the crowd jeering and whistling over the song, but the ESC employ something called an "audience sweetener", so the sound you hear on telly isn't the same as being there. Even Graham Norton said it was a "mixed reception".
Israel received 12 points from Eurovision public voting in:
Azerbaijan,
France,
Netherlands,
Germany,
Luxembourg,
Sweden,
Portugal,
Britain,
Spain,
Switzerland,
Belgium,
Australia
They received 10 points from public voting in
Ireland,
Cyprus,
Finland,
San Marino,
Norway
Czech Republic.Comment
-
I don't know anything about Eurovision but there is a lot of talk here in Ireland about those 10 points and how they were possible. Seems completely at odds with the vibe of the country and, considering Eurovision is Gay Christmas, especially at odds with the core Eurovision viewership here.Comment
-
Beyond money making I don't see any reason for the 20 vote limit per caller instead of having the simple and obvious one of a single vote. Though it's obvious that voting in Eurovision is rigged in general, the entire point of introducing the public vote element was to try to mitigate it to a degree rather than make it worse. It genuinely makes it hard to get reinvested in watching because no element of the show is genuine anymore.Comment
-
Yeah, it's a real disappointment as the people's vote was supposed to spice things up, which it does and anyone could win as the public might prefer a different act from the judges, but the Ukraine vote a few years back showed that it can be skewed.
I'm not saying I have evidence that Israel cheated with the phone vote, I'm just saying that it doesn't look right and that makes it a less enticing prospect knowing a country can cheat its way to victory.
We cheered pretty loudly when Israel were pipped to the post.
I suspect a lot of Eurovision's key demographic were pretty relieved the next final isn't held there.
On one hand, I get that it's a bit of fun, but likewise, making the voting aspect corruptible removes the excitement and makes it less likely to watch.Last edited by QualityChimp; 19-05-2025, 13:15.Comment
-
The presenters looked visibly uncomfortable when they were down to the last few announcements and Israel were still in the lead, if the show wants to try to maintain the image of neutrality they need to really comb over the systemComment
-
It's delving into conspiracy theories, which is a murky territory, but sometimes this stuff can be explained by how much different groups are spread across the continent. Similar to how Poland generally does well, I mean even this year Poland got 17 votes from the Jury and 139 from the public. It's said that's because the Polish Diaspora has Polish people all over Europe and the Polish song speaks to them, culturally. I've just got to assume that there are a lot of people across Europe who are politically aligned with Israel, and, critically, I don't know how many people vote in Eurovision (like as a % of population) so a determined group might be able to sway things.Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
I do think that it needs to be looked into, though. I see some people online talking about phone banks and things like that; I'm not quite ready to believe the Israeli government would go to those lengths, or that such a thing would stay quiet. I can believe, however, that people who don't even watch/like Eurovision could be convinced to vote for an act for political reasons, and maybe there might be something there, and that might've motivated the sending of the specific performer that was sent.Comment
-
They might be fine to commit genocide but even the Israeli government wouldn’t stoop to trying to rig the Eurovision.Comment
-
Honestly, it's ****ing ridiculous that they're allowed in the competition.Comment
-
I know you're being glib here but to be clear; it's not about ethics. It's more that I just don't think they (or anyone) cares about Eurovision that much to go so far as to rig it.Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
I can totally believe their information ministry (or whatever equivalent they have) might do things like reach out to publications to 'feature' their act and suggest people in other countries vote for their contestant, or to pick a contestant that's likely to pick up votes related to what Israel is doing. I'm just not sure I believe in the idea that they literally have sent agents to other countries to set up enough phone banks to reliably cheat.
I honestly agree; you'd think that waging a war would be pre-requisite to disqualification. I read online that apparently, even for Russia, they weren't disqualified because they invaded Ukraine; it was because countries made formal complaints about Russia breaking the rules of the European Broadcasting Union which relate to the war, and that's actually why they were disqualified. Presumably Israel has been careful to remain within those rules.Originally posted by wakka View Post
This, of course, is not a good thing. Eurovision wants to be a-political but as anyone observing politics knows, "silence is violence". They need to reform their rules to include certain geopolitical actions (such as war, state-sponsored terrorism, failing to meet minimum standards to respecting human rights and so on).Last edited by Asura; 20-05-2025, 07:04.Comment
-
It feels like we're a long way from whipping off the skirts of Bucks Fizz.Comment
-
Yeah, I can understand that point of view. For me, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Mostly because the biggest weapon in Israel's war, in my view, and one they have been utilising successfully for decades is public opinion - that they will be seen as having enough support to get away with whatever crimes they want to. I wouldn't underestimate just how important that is to Israel and, while I have no info on the Eurovision at all, I certainly wouldn't write the idea off as a conspiracy theory.Originally posted by Asura View Post
My glibness was meant to carry a truth - nothing is beyond them. And the propaganda war is very real.
Edit: Just one other part to that point. Keep in mind that a huge part of that propaganda war always needs to be aimed at Israelis themselves, They need the support of their own population. You can be sure many of them wake up with that "wait, are we the baddies?" question. Visible support at something like the Eurovision is a great way to tell the Israeli population that, no, the world loves you.Last edited by Dogg Thang; 20-05-2025, 08:25.Comment
-
The fact that it's been proven that Israel's government were paying for adverts, means they're not above breaking the rules.
If that's the case, it's less of a leap to believe they abused the phone vote.
Being seen as admired by the world is something they apparently desire.
That goes hand-in-hand with shutting down anyone who criticises. Just ask Gary Lineker.
This is a fascinating and terrifying documentary about how what we see is a fake version of reality and we accept it:
Comment
-
This actually makes me wonder.Originally posted by QualityChimp View Post
Eurovision doesn't disclose how many people voted in the contest or how many votes those people cast (on average), and each person can actually vote up to 20 times, including 20 times for 1 country.
Hypothesis. Say a nation was to ask its Embassy and Consulate staff to vote with their phones, and those of their families. Then they ask if all Embassies, Consulates and other affiliated organisations could vote with all of their telephone lines. All of these post 20 votes.
The Japanese Embassy, according to Google, lists 55 employees in its LinkedIn. With family members, they probably could go as high as ~250 telephone numbers. Then I imagine the Consulates and Embassy itself have numerous phone lines too. Imagine, for the sake purely of convenience, it was 500 numbers, each voting 20 times for a total of 10,000 votes.
There's no way to know, I suppose, but what I'm wondering is, is a margin of 10,000 statistically significant in the votes?Comment
Comment