Christopher Nolan's INCEPTION

[Wools]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/filmreviews/7892057/Inception-review.html

I've just been reading the Telegraph's criticism of the film and really want to vent over one part of Tim Robey's review.

"But Nolan’s skill at basic action choreography hasn’t improved since Batman’s fisticuffs..."

Can you name me one other film released in the past 10 years that had better action choreography than the Dark Knight? Only James Cameron and John Woo can claim to stage and frame action better than what Christopher Nolan did with Dark Knight.

Nolan learnt a lot from Begins whereby all action was filmed for real on stage but he relied on the genres most overused style, quick editing and zoomed in shots. With Dark Knight, he kept the reliance on real stunts but held wide shots that kept up with the action. Whilst he became more confident with his ability, so did his stunt team. They engineered and crafted some of the best practical stunts and effects seen since Terminator 2, keeping the effects within reality so the audience were not taken out of it.

Despite Nolan's reputation for complex films and subtext, he has become one of the best action directors I've seen for a long time.

[Matt]

I felt the action staging on the snow was very poor. Was actually surprised because it had been fine up to that point.

[QualityChimp]

Saw this last night and really enjoyed it probably 8.5 Chimps out of 10 on the Chimpometer.

I loved the ending and thought it was packed with unique sequences that makes it well worth seeing.

Plot was intricate, but followable.

Few things confused me:

->Open Spoiler<-

How come rolling in a van with rain splashing through the window didn't give them their "kick"?

Even in dreams, henchmen seem to be rrrrrubbish shots!

Finally, wasn't it all a lot of effort to go just for a bit of industrial espionage?! Couldn't they just have reported Scarecrow's company to the Monopolies and Mergers Comittee?!

[Matt]

Few things confused me:

->Open Spoiler<-

How come rolling in a van with rain splashing through the window didn't give them their "kick"?

Even in dreams, henchmen seem to be rrrrrubbish shots!

Finally, wasn't it all a lot of effort to go just for a bit of industrial espionage?! Couldn't they just have reported Scarecrow's company to the Monopolies and Mergers Comittee?!

->Open Spoiler<-

Difference between getting rain and the freezing cold of the river? The drugs required an extra big kick.

Henchmenbeing rubbish shots - it's all a dream so it's allowed

Industrial espionage? It's all a dream! Those characters may never even have existed anywhere other than Cobbs mind (or whoever's mind he's in).

[QualityChimp]

Can you name me one other film released in the past 10 years that had better action choreography than the Dark Knight?

I only saw Dark Knight once at the IMAX and all I can remember action-wise is the opening heist, using the batwings, the truck flip and all those wonderful toys.

I liked it, but found it so dark, I'm not keen to see it again. Does that make sense? I actually prefer Begins because I like the gothic Gotham, the action sequences and the faint smell of hope!

Nolan does do good action scenes, (the hotel sequence in Inception was awesome) but in answer to your question, how about:
Kill Bill vol.1 (House of Blue Leaves fight)
The Matrix Reloaded (Burly Brawl, car chase, mansion fight)
Lord of the Rings trilogy (Battle for Helms Deep, Battle of Pellanor Fields)
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (rooftop chase, girl fight)
The Bourne Identity (Bank escape, assassin fight in paris, mini car chase)
300 (Battle of Thermopylae)
Casino Royale (parkour opening chase)
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (Anakin Vs. Obi Wan Kenobi)
Children of Men (long take at the end)
28 Days Later (first chase, final stand)
Hot Fuzz (Somerfield, Model Village)
Equilibrium (end shootout/fight)

That's just Hollywood films off the top of my head.
Don't get me started on martial arts films!

Also, Inception makes me think of a couple of other films, Dreamscape and Brainstorm. Anybody else seen these? They're pretty ace!





EDIT: You know I'm not having a go, Wools, I just think saying Dark Knight has the best action scenes in the last decade is a bold claim!

[toxicninja]

I was being sarcastic

Seems like they're both people who like to use the big words for an audience who is more than likely never going to understand what the **** they're going on about!

Ohh right sorry I dont know though, Penny arcade always seemed aimed to massive nerds and the kind who might understand his rambling sometimes.

[QualityChimp]

->Open Spoiler<-

Industrial espionage? It's all a dream! Those characters may never even have existed anywhere other than Cobbs mind (or whoever's mind he's in).

That's a good point, but

->Open Spoiler<-

99.99% of the film, we're lead to believe it is real and only in the last few seconds are we lead to think it might be a dream!

For 2 hours +,

->Open Spoiler<-

we're supposed to think Leonardo and his team are trying to plant the idea in Scarecrow's mind to split his company up.

For heaven's sake, don't read our spoilers if you've not seen it!

[Matt]

That's a good point, but

->Open Spoiler<-

99.99% of the film, we're lead to believe it is real and only in the last few seconds are we lead to think it might be a dream!

For 2 hours +,

->Open Spoiler<-

we're supposed to think Leonardo and his team are trying to plant the idea in Scarecrow's mind to split his company up.

As we're watching it, but on reflection

->Open Spoiler<-

I think it's pretty obvious it's all a dream, and there are loads of hints, not just the bit at the end. There are mysterious things that don't actually make sense, but would if you're in a dream; or ironically enough, in a movie, where we're all too happy to believe in Evil Mystery Corporation chasing someone. In that seen alone, he's trapped between two buildings which, I guess, is a nightmare "feeling" of being trapped and unable to escape as you're being chased.

And then Saito magically appears.

Fischer doesn't know Saito, which is bizarre. The kids not aging, and doing the same things at the end as his memory had them doing. Same clothes as well, if memory serves.

I think it's a dream from the start. Whether it's an orchestrated dream, and Cobb is inside someone elses dreamworld and someone is planting an idea / Inception into his mind is the question. For if it's a dream, then the tech to enter dreams doesn't need to exist anyway. That would make the film redundant, so assuming it does, then Cobb is inside someone elses dreams; after all, his ex wife that keeps appearing is his projection.

Who knows. It's good fun coming out of a film and thinking about it. I plan on seeing it again next week

[Family Fry]

About that scene

->Open Spoiler<-

When he is escaping the people hunting him, first thing I thought was 'Are the walls actually closing in on him? Is he dreaming?' It's a nightmare scenario of being chased dream and you can't escape, as said Saito magically appears to bail him out of trouble and magically offers him a way back to reality, which is what Micael Caine says he should do before he grabs Ellen Page, could be taken as Cobbs projection of what his father in law would actually say to him and what he wants deep down.
The same clothes on the children almost gives it away that it's still a dream, seems that is all he has left is memories but once he lets go of his wifes memory he can finally see his childrens faces again. Possibly because of guilt as he is mostly responsible for killing his wife by trying Inception on her first and the entire film is him in Limbo being haunted by his wife and his ultimate esca.....OH NO I've gone cross-eyed.

Would love to see it again with opened eyes, looking out for extra stuff knowing where it is all heading.

[Neon Ignition]

I can agree with the anti-shakey cam notions and that Nolan has a mind for picturing ideas for great action sequences but as a literal film making view I think he's pretty weak at them 90&#37; of the time they're stylish but badly timed and unengaging. I liked lots about his recent output but the action never comes to mind. That's why I'm glad he isn't directing Superman and carried out his Bond ideas in Inception rather than making an actual entry.

[Wools]

I only saw Dark Knight once at the IMAX and all I can remember action-wise is the opening heist, using the batwings, the truck flip and all those wonderful toys.

I liked it, but found it so dark, I'm not keen to see it again. Does that make sense? I actually prefer Begins because I like the gothic Gotham, the action sequences and the faint smell of hope!

Nolan does do good action scenes, (the hotel sequence in Inception was awesome) but in answer to your question, how about:
Kill Bill vol.1 (House of Blue Leaves fight)
The Matrix Reloaded (Burly Brawl, car chase, mansion fight)
Lord of the Rings trilogy (Battle for Helms Deep, Battle of Pellanor Fields)
The Bourne Identity (Bank escape, assassin fight in paris, mini car chase)
Casino Royale (parkour opening chase)

You know I'm not having a go, Wools, I just think saying Dark Knight has the best action scenes in the last decade is a bold claim!

No worries, I know you're not having a go, just naming some of your favourites!

It's a bold claim but one I do stand by. The films you mentioned have some great action and I've left the films that I do rate as either having a great piece of action or are filmed brilliantly. I'll also add Ong Bak to that list as well!

I find it interesting that you mentioned Hot Fuzz. Although I love Spaced, I feel that Edgar Wright has not yet stepped up to the plate in regards to film action scenes. For my money, he's very much like Paul Greengrass. He knows what makes great action, puts the people in place to make some stunning scenes and then relies or uses shaky cam and quick editing to capture the moment. The viewer can't see bugger all and the urgency and precision the stunt team has created will be lost. The bathroom scene in Ultimatum where 2 actors are fighting hand to hand is better captured in the DVD making of than in the film!

Also another bugbear of mine is the use of CGI when practical effects conveys so much more than the replacement of human beings ever can. For that reason, The Matrix still stands up as a fantastic action film but reloaded does not because of the Wachowski's reliance on CGI. Despite Keanu's brilliant physical acting in the burly brawl, you're now taken out of the scene as you can see the jump between a human actor and a CGI Keanu. Why the filmmakers could not work within the possibilities of real stunts, as they had done in The Matrix, rather than rely on CGI is unbeknown to me. Despite those flaws, the freeway chase scene was and still is brilliant and no one can knock it.

The house of blue leaves scene in Kill Bill to the Aston Martin DBS9 Flip in Casino Royale and the last stand in Avatar, there's been some fantastic action direction in the past decade. Yet I still maintain that The Dark Knight has the most impressive and stand out action scenes from this past 15 years. From the opening bank job, the car park break up, the Chinese tower break in, the bank truck chase, the Batpod and 18 wheeler flip, the Hospital being blown up and the skyscraper assault. It's one of the most consistent and well made action films ever made.

No other film has managed to combine the amount of diverse action seen in The Dark Knight and to pull it off with such flair and visual style. Although there is a lack of any real gunfight, Nolan has used the possibilities of a Batman film to conjure up some brilliant set pieces. Although other action films do hit certain notes or have some inspired moments, no other action film has had the creativity, believability or talent that Nolan showed with the Dark Knight.

And just to give you a barometer of where I'm coming from, some of my favourite action films are Aliens, Terminator 2, Police Story, Drunken Master, Saving Private Ryan, The Bourne Identity and Avatar. Also certain scenes in Heat, Collateral, Miami Vice and countless others have great action but I don't class them as sole action films. If this post wasn't long enough already!

I heard Kermode talk about Dreamscape in the Inception review as well but I've not seen it myself. Is it any good?

[Baseley09]

Dreamscape has Quaid and a serpent man.

Therefore it needs watching.

[Baseley09]

Saw this last night 22:50 showing got out at 1:30, didn't fall asleep which must mean this was a pretty good movie. Lost it at the James Bond snow bit a little, pulled it back well. 4/5 skuller.

[QualityChimp]

No worries, I know you're not having a go, just naming some of your favourites!

Thanks mate, you know what the interwebz is like, if people flared up as often as they do on some forums in real conversations, people would be fighting all the time!

I find it interesting that you mentioned Hot Fuzz. Although I love Spaced, I feel that Edgar Wright has not yet stepped up to the plate in regards to film action scenes. For my money, he's very much like Paul Greengrass. He knows what makes great action, puts the people in place to make some stunning scenes and then relies or uses shaky cam and quick editing to capture the moment. The viewer can't see bugger all and the urgency and precision the stunt team has created will be lost.

I HATE shakycam! (Bold, italic and underlined!) What's the point of doing an action scene when you can't see what the hell's happening? It's ruined several action films for me as it's an opportunity wasted.

I've recently been watching some Sammo Hung-directed 80s kung-fu flicks and the way he sets up the action and cuts between fighters is brilliant. He's not shaking the camera and I'm not thinking "This is slow".

I don't remember there being too much shaky-cam in Hot Fuzz, maybe I missed it? It's due for a re-watch soon so I'll have a look.

I'm really hoping Wright finds his pace in Scott Pilgrim. I love the look of the comic book styling, but I hope he stages the action well too. I've got high hopes because primary stunt co-ordinator is Brad Allen, a member of the Jackie Chan stunt team who fought JC at the end of Gorgeous.

(Also, will the videogame of the movie be the best tie-in game ever?!)

The bathroom scene in Ultimatum where 2 actors are fighting hand to hand is better captured in the DVD making of than in the film!

100&#37; agree. You'll notice I left Ultimatum and Supremacy off my list because I think the action scenes were ruined by shaky-cam. Bourne breaks into a spy's house, rolls up a newspaper, the camera shakes, the spy is dead. Not only that, but they totally deviate from the books, turn Bourne into a monosyllabic Terminator and ruin the perfect ending of the first film in a way only trumped by Alien3's ruining of Aliens' ending!

Also another bugbear of mine is the use of CGI when practical effects conveys so much more than the replacement of human beings ever can. For that reason, The Matrix still stands up as a fantastic action film but reloaded does not because of the Wachowski's reliance on CGI.

100% agree again. When I saw Reloaded for the first time I didn't see the CGI in the Burly Brawl, now I've seen it loads, I know exactly where it kicks in! The first half is still an amazing accomplishment of co-ordination and editing though.

I'd rather see James Bond jump off a roof than see him surfing an atomic tidal wave...
If you look carefully, you can see him jump the shark.

And just to give you a barometer of where I'm coming from, some of my favourite action films are Aliens, Terminator 2, Police Story, Drunken Master, Saving Private Ryan, The Bourne Identity and Avatar.

Yeah, I'd come to a Wools' movie night for defo!

I heard Kermode talk about Dreamscape in the Inception review as well but I've not seen it myself. Is it any good?

Well, it's stuck on my mind after all these years, so it can't be awful! I think it's just a fairly unique idea, well it was until Nolan stole it wholesale and stuck a load of badly-filmed action sequences over it! (joke!)

If anybody's reading this thread hoping to see if Inception's worth watching and sees our digressions, in a nutshell "Hell yeah".

[bash]

Ok, saw this last night in Odeon Leicester Square, brilliant venue for a brilliant film. Its a shame almost as I cant see batman 3 getting anywhere near this level of perfection, let alone DK. I really think Nolan has peaked. The film is amazingly realised and executed. brilliant ideas expertly explained and delivered at a frenetic pace. Probably the best film I've seen at the cinema since The Matrix. For me The Matrix was great at the time because of all the kung fu and bullet time coolness and this feels like a natural progression if you grew up with that movie because its a more adult, mature, intelligent film yet just as thrilling. Plus it doesnt rely on the effects as much.

I preferred the ending

->Open Spoiler<-

, Im of the opinion dream based movies like Total Recall should end with the audience making their own minds up. Plus the whole secret agent/espionage thing is a similar theme in that its too far fetched to be real.

Didnt anyone else get a Shutter Island feel for the movie when dealing with Cobb and his Mrs?