The Marvel Cinematic Multiverse

[Asura]

very much feel like the old guard like melodramas or soaps which focus on real life issues and relationships more than actualy being a super hero

Yeah, I feel that something the Marvel movies have done is give us "the big plot" that many prior movies & shows shied away from.

I think I said this earlier about Blade, but there are many movies where you used to get a vampire apocalypse, or an alien invasion, or a secret order of heroes or wizards that had to remain secret from the whole world, or the consequences might be dire in some non-specific way. If the truth ever "leaks out", it'll be sewn up in a few episodes or before the movie is over... Or in the case of one-off movies, it'll just form part of the epilogue. Or the events are limited to some out-of-the-way place in-the-middle-of-nowhere, so ultimately they don't affect the world at large.

That makes shows difficult to write, so you double-down on the interpersonal drama. Kinda like in Smallville, many loved it at the time but there was definitely this pervasive undercurrent in the fanbase about when he was gonna fly, and when he was going to be "proper" Superman and if that would happen long enough before the end of the show.

The Marvel movies totally broke the mould with that very early, "I am Iron Man" moment. It was a statement that Marvel's heroes weren't going to be like those other movies. The people in those worlds live in a world different to ours, where their whole worldview is affected by the massive, life-changing things that the characters do. Whereas other movies might've had the Thanos Snap undo cause a time-reversal, where everyone forgets, but then there's a knowing wink between two characters at the end who remember... Instead it caused a change on a cosmic level, affecting everyone.

[Neon Ignition]

Whereas other movies might've had the Thanos Snap undo cause a time-reversal, where everyone forgets, but then there's a knowing wink between two characters at the end who remember... Instead it caused a change on a cosmic level, affecting everyone.

I wish, the more films have come and gone since Endgame came out the more I feel that the undoing of the snap has been one of the weakest handled aspects of the MCU.



I remember the fixation in the Smallville times on the 'moment'. It was almost amusing that it only came literally 5 minutes from the end of the final episode of a 10 season show. It wasn't even that well done but they mostly managed to pull it off I think because the journey had been one where it at least felt like Clark was always holding back so the final 'moment' has him as one of the most powerful Superman incarnations, at least a little carthartic for the audience. Whereas now we have Superman & Lois that just embraces it from the outset.

Looking back, I think the likes of Hawkeye or Falcon & the Winter Soldier had the best approach. They take an existing MCU character that is well known but under developed compared to the others and gives breathing room to expand the story and connection to the character, but at the same time any audience missing them won't skip a beat following the films.

Shows like WandaVision and Loki are more difficult. Whilst both are the most popular shows and in theory follow a similar approach to Hawkeye and Falcon, both of these have stronger ties to the films and so you get that jarring break such as people complaining that Wanda's turn from Endgame to MoM doesn't make sense (even some who watched WandaVision and missed the point of its ending). Those following the films have a high chance of not making sense of things if Loki suddenly popped up, they know he survived but will have no idea why he's good again let alone the time shannanigans, or same with Vision. These stronger ties, though not even that direct, blur the lines between the series and films and take away from each film feeling event like.

Then there's the other lane of series, the new character shows like Moonknight, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk etc. I think this is the trap that The Marvel's risks falling into here, where 2/3's of the lead characters are from Disney+ shows either as those shows leads or supporting characters pulling focus away from the character audiences actually focused on. It's something that at the least the trailers suggest, with The Marvels really, really looking like an extra episode of Ms Marvel which isn't a great look when trying to sell a triple digits millions production.

Personally, I quite like the idea that effectively What If uses. Using the TV series to use the cast, characters etc but showcase the multiverse possibilities and leave the films to continue the core canon as it is. You're not tied to what happens in the films, can have event or running series and can also have fun with the possibilities more with free choice over if anything ever makes the jump to film without having to care if audiences have had a subscription.

[Asura]

so you get that jarring break such as people complaining that Wanda's turn from Endgame to MoM doesn't make sense (even some who watched WandaVision and missed the point of its ending)

I've got to assume that Marvel watched that very closely, as a kind-of controlled experiment. Because if you hadn't watched Wandavision then her character pivot in Doctor Strange 2 comes out of absolutely nowhere.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I think Disney found itself in a difficult position following the end of Thanos. It had been 22 films leading up to that point and we were introduced to the big three (iron man, Cap, and Thor) in phase one. As an audience we had watched them develop up to that point. Then we lost two of them, which I think was the right thing to do to move things on. But as an audience we still need some familiarity and I think this is were they got it wrong.
Introducing new characters is good, but it needed a central arc for them to all pivot from so we know they are connected as characters and that they are all heading in the same direction. What we have is TV shows with separate stories for each of them with no cross over of any of them and no 'Big Bad'/mcguffin to aim at. So why should we watch them?
It needed some lingering 'Ah ha' moment from Endgame that the audience missed that carried the story on, but gave us something new too. At least that how I would have done it.

...Guess I better head to LA to write it myself and show those boring layabouts how its done.

[Neon Ignition]

And that's a fairly small shift as well, by the sounds Secret Invasion is going to be the one that really causes headaches

[Neon Ignition]

Embedded Tweet

[Dogg Thang]

Something about Marvels screams made for TV. And I hope I’m very wrong because I still really rate the first movie.

Side note: I rewatched Shang Chi and, while not close to being a perfect movie, it’s definitely right up there as one of my all time favourite Marvel movies.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, the idea of making a sequel to a $1bn grossing origin film be so focused on following up on Disney+ series was a hell of a bat even before two of the said series turned out to be the least viewed ones. It's amazing to think Captian Marvel was considered to be the next central figure head of the MCU once Iron Man and Captain America left, but it feels like the support from them isn't there at all for it. It might be a meme now about how present Wong is in the MCU but it's telling that one supporting character is so notable as he's about the only one with a persistent presence.

Shang-Chi highlights that, I agree that it's one of the best MCU films of recent times. As yet there's zero lined up in regards to making a sequel to it though because the MCU slate is so heavy, adding to the puzzle of how we're going to head into a double Avengers movie event in the next few years and are expecting audiences to care about what happens to the new characters like they did to the old ones in Endgame.

[Neon Ignition]

Second trailer for The Marvels which... doesn't really add anything to the prior one and it still looks really cheap

[Lebowski]

Hey it looks better than the last Ant Man, id defiantly watch it as it looks pretty fun (i still haven't watched the new Ant-man and its free to watch on Disney). plus beastie boys on the soundtrack you cant go wrong with that track it got me pumped for the film.

The first Captain Marvel attracting a lot of stick for being some sort of woke leftist film because it had a female lead in a comic book film. She spoke out against a wave of negative previews and reviews saying she didn't really care what a load of old white male film reviewers thought. id i though well good on you, that people actualy tried to get the film boycotted and it made 1.3 billion at the box office was a great result.

[Neon Ignition]

Brie's great, feels like Marvel have really sold her short in the role

[Dogg Thang]

This trailer draws me in better than the last. It still looks very TV but I like the idea - it’s like a story based around a game mechanic. I wonder if it will matter that I haven’t seen that Ms Marvel show. I might watch it. I did like the look of it. The Marvel shows have been such a mixed bag.

[Asura]

What the hell is with that weird "smell the fart acting" shot at 34 seconds in?

[Cassius_Smoke]

I quite liked the look of it. I like the idea of them switching places when they use their powers. Hopefully it's used in some interesting ways.

[fishbowlhead]

Looks good.