The Marvel Cinematic Multiverse

[Cassius_Smoke]

I say go for it. I'm all for making the next wave of marvel film wibbly wobbly.

[Asura]

From comics probably.

C'mon DT, don't be obtuse. There's been like 20 Spider-man films and Sony has been aware of the comics the whole time. They're presumably doing it because Spider-verse has suggested that the public will turn out for parallel universe-themed stories.

It's worth holding up because the MCU's whole approach, up until this point (at least I believe) is founded on trying to do Marvel without all that. There's one Thor, one Captain America, one Iron Man... They might pass on their mantle to a new actor, but the point is that it's kinda steered clear of having movies which are parallel universes of each other, like DC's fragmented mess - despite how this is a pretty well-accepted way of how comics operate.

It's also one of the reasons I like the MCU whereas I think it's part of the reason I never got on with mainstream comics besides the tentpole graphic novels. I don't mind when it's a one-off or novelty like Spider-verse, which was fantastic... But I hope this doesn't bleed over into the MCU.

[Dogg Thang]

C'mon DT, don't be obtuse. There's been like 20 Spider-man films and Sony has been aware of the comics the whole time. They're presumably doing it because Spider-verse has suggested that the public will turn out for parallel universe-themed stories.

I don't know how this changes the answer. Or why the question matters. Is it that Sony are ripping off Sony's concept? One that has happened over and over again in comics? Spider-verse was brilliant for far many more reasons than the crossover idea and I can't imagine this movie could possibly hit that same benchmark.

(note - I don't think Spider-verse performed as well as most of those other Spider-man films)

[QualityChimp]

C'mon DT, don't be obtuse.

[Asura]

I don't know how this changes the answer. Or why the question matters. Is it that Sony are ripping off Sony's concept? One that has happened over and over again in comics? Spider-verse was brilliant for far many more reasons than the crossover idea and I can't imagine this movie could possibly hit that same benchmark.

(note - I don't think Spider-verse performed as well as most of those other Spider-man films)

It matters, at least to me. I'll at least try to describe how I feel about it.

I guess part of this comes from how most of us lived through an earlier era, where a Hollywood adaptation's default setting was, if we're trying to be polite, "insincere".

Compare the two stories about how the Halo movie never got off the ground.

Microsoft refused to let the movie get out of pre-pro and Hollywood said (in various leaks etc.) it was because MS wanted "too much control". Fans naturally suggest that seeing films like Street Fighter or Mario Bros, for all the campy fun they now provide, MS may have just wanted the movies to be an honest interpretation of the games, whereas film-makers probably wanted to "put their own stamp on it" and make it into something it isn't. There's a stereotypical (biased) image here of a film-maker striding in, who, having not played the games, wants to outline "their vision" for Halo, true or untrue though that may be. (again, it's a biased impression - sometimes this happens and you get Starship Troopers)

Conversely, film-makers probably approached it, correctly, as bringing that property to a new medium, which necessitates changes, or you end up with something faithful, but arguably boring (a recent example of this apparently is the Ace Attorney anime, which is like a 1:1 re-creation of the games in anime form, pretty much, which is interesting, but kinda dull?).

Obviously the truth of the matter probably lies between these two narratives.

One of the things about Spider-verse is that of all the big-screen outings of Spider-man, it's the movie which most sums up the property to me. It's closest to my nebulous image of the character. Kinda like how, in a certain sense, the definitive Batman movie is Lego Batman.

Sony, like all big film companies, is driven by revenue, not by "respect for the medium", so it's to be expected that they're going to take only small, incremental risks and chase what's popular. I think Spider-verse was a strange movie in that I think it took a lot of creative risks, and despite that, they all landed and the movie has been a big hit, even a critical darling.

For the record, it's ****ty that "having a black protagonist" and "being a western animated movie that isn't purely aimed at children" are both seen as "risks" in Hollywood, but it's 2020 and here we are. Maybe Spider-verse and Black Panther will start to blow apart those myths and we'll get to see more actors of colour on those heroic protagonist roles.

I guess what I'm saying is the fact that the comics have done this for years probably isn't why they're doing this; I think Spider-verse is.

[QualityChimp]

Having all the old characters come back without warning would have been an amazing twist.
Shame that's been ruined before a single second of footage has been filmed.

[Dogg Thang]

I guess what I'm saying is the fact that the comics have done this for years probably isn't why they're doing this; I think Spider-verse is.

I read that entire post and still didn't come away with why. I'm not sure it matters - what I get is that it is important to you.

Anyway, for me regardless of why they are doing it, I don't think it's going to be for me. For me, it's not a mix of universes, it's a mix of real world film properties and that takes me outside the movie. And for me, the Marvel movies delivered where other superhero movies didn't. So this is putting the stinkier parts into the good ones. It's like adding bovril to coffee.

[Neon Ignition]

It's also one of the reasons I like the MCU whereas I think it's part of the reason I never got on with mainstream comics besides the tentpole graphic novels. I don't mind when it's a one-off or novelty like Spider-verse, which was fantastic... But I hope this doesn't bleed over into the MCU.

Bad news Asura, the film also features Doctor Strange and is a launch pad into Doctor Strange 2 which is based entirely around the concept of Multi-verse. Marvel was first to announce their project and direction also, given the fast turnaround between SM films it's likely that Spider-Man 3 is a reaction to the announcement of that project as much as Spider-verses success. Either way Marvel itself is headed down the Multi-verse route (presumably their way of getting the X-Men in eventually too).

As is obvious, I'm in the camp of being pro-Maguire entries inclusion. They nailed the MCU tone well before Iron Man (I'd be curious to know if the trilogy's success in the day was at all reference point when Iron Man was developed) and they're also, for all their faults, the most heartful entries with (whether counting Maguire in the role or not) the best developed incarnation of Parker in live action. Also, two of the better SM films inclusive of one entry better than the majority of MCU movies. The ASM films though... that's a hard one. Honestly, I don't love them but likewise so far I feel the only thing that kind of separates them from the Holland movies is the MCU references. Strip them out and they're probably very similar, fairly flat experiences with weaker Peters.

[Dogg Thang]

It's still surprising to me that Marvel spent all these years building their own universe and have succeeded in a way not a single other franchise has in terms of being able to create so many separate parts that are all the part of one whole... and then they let Sony chuck their stuff into it. For me, it feels like a loss for the MCU and a huge win for Sony. Sony's films have been all over the place. I think even people who like a lot of them can agree they've been wildly inconsistent. Whereas with the MCU, even the weak ones have managed to stay within a fairly narrow spectrum. The MCU never needed what Sony had and it certainly doesn't need anything from the older Spider-man movies, whether they're considered good or bad.

Edit: I'm all for this though -

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[Neon Ignition]

Kevin Feig probably feels like they're course correcting Sony like a rogue missile at times. It's Marvel's own fault in a way though, they wanted Spider-Man to appear in the MCU enough to agree and from that moment on Sony could make anything they do going forward part of the MCU. Laugh is, I'm not actually sure any MCU movie would have been much different at all in any meaningful way had Spider-Man never appeared in them.

[Dogg Thang]

I totally agree. I love the character and, unlike you, I think Holland is fantastic and I loved that first movie (not so much the second one) but, yeah, the MCU was doing just fine without Spider-Man. Again, a testament to their success that they took characters like Iron Man and Thor and made them top tier superheroes so quickly.

[Asura]

Bad news Asura, the film also features Doctor Strange and is a launch pad into Doctor Strange 2 which is based entirely around the concept of Multi-verse.

Well, it had a good run

In seriousness I'm waiting to see how it pans out.

[Dogg Thang]

If they bring Maguire and that other guy back and not these two, I mean why even bother?

[Asura]

If they bring Maguire and that other guy back and not these two, I mean why even bother?

Hah Funnily enough, in the animated show, when they did their version of Secret Wars and they had 6 parallel incarnations of Spider-Man team up, one of them was that guy.

It was funny, because there was the regular Spider-man, a version where he was like Tony Stark and super-rich with an technological suit, a version where he was a more spider-like mutant, a version where he was merged with Venom... And a version that was an actor who plays Spider-man on TV, with no powers or heroic tendencies whatsoever.

It was fun, though. It ended with Spidey meeting Stan Lee.

[Neon Ignition]

The definitive win for Maguire is he can shoot webbing, Garfield is largely just a strong bloke whilst Holland is... well, a onsied Iron Man
Not that it matters, all this talk is moot in a world where Michael Keaton is coming back as Batman!!