The Star Wars Cinematic Universe

[Neon Ignition]

After a site pointed out Ahsoka is an Ep2-3 character and the series is Ep6-7 timed I looked at a brief synopsis of the characters past in the animated series...


... and people were livid about a Palpatine clone being in Ep9?

[Dogg Thang]

I don’t get it.

[Neon Ignition]

Apparently she time travels through a portal that the Emporer is seeking through a dimensional realm that will give him control of Time as well as the known Galaxy

[Dogg Thang]

Huh. That sounds odd.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, the kind of thing where you can imagine the divide in the franchise between those who view it as 'Star Wars' and those who view it as 'Sci-fi'
It's weird in a way that Star Wars contains such a wealth of sci-fi conventions but at the same time feels like walls are up to some concepts, but I couldn't argue that it should use them either - anything relating even remotely to time travel in Star Wars feels just wrong

[Dogg Thang]

I guess it’s a tricky line. Star Wars isn’t sci-fi, it’s space fantasy and is treated as such by the people working on it. But then I feel if it doesn’t change and grow, we just end up with the cover version Star Wars that, to me, does it a disservice. It’s probably a no-win situation but, for me, I like them to take chances even if it means things I don’t like. Because taking chances is probably the only way to get something interesting.

[fishbowlhead]

Nature is bound to throw up some sort of time travel in the universe somewhere, so why can’t it exist in starwars?

Hang on so hyperdrive capable space whale/squids are ok but not time travel?

[MartyG]

They can have anything they like in Star Wars; as Dogg Thang pointed out, Star Wars isn't and never has been Sci-Fi, its universe is free to invent anything - but it still has to fit in their canon universe somehow.

[Neon Ignition]

For me it doesn't work because Star Wars is... well, it's sci-fi imagery is mostly window dressing for a simpler skeleton. In theory they could start introducing time travel, multiverse concepts etc but it feels like a descent into being a **** version of Star Trek. And no, a hyperdrive capable squid is also not okay

[Asura]

About the time-travel thing...

People are fine with it because Ahsoka (the character and generally the parts of the franchise in which she is involved) is good. People like it.

There's definitely a small cadre of Star Wars "fans" who are still miffed about the Ewoks. Who resist literally any change to the lore. But I believe that's really a tiny number of people, who the franchise is wise to put in a box and throw that box into the ocean, in terms of who they choose to market their movies.

But that's not the majority; nowhere near.

Star Wars is a sci-fantasy story about space wizards and pirates, and heroes who wield swords literally made of light. It's adventurous, fantasy fun in a cool sci-fi setting. You can do a lot with it, and you can honestly introduce practically anything; but it's got to be good.

Take Knights of the Old Republic; that popularised the idea that there were 3 core types of Jedi; Guardian, Consular and Sentinel, and that this was the reason the Jedi often had different coloured lightsabers. Or that "the Sith" are not just a group of people who wield the dark side of the force, but instead were an ancient race, long extinct, and the present "Sith" merely follow their ideal. Or that Jedi can have a skill called "battle meditation", where they can meditate and inspire their side on a battle to fight.

Many fans accepted these things as canon immediately even though it had really no basis in the then-movies. They might've been already in the books, I dunno, but KoToR definitely established these things in the fanon lore.

People were fine with these things because they were good, and because KoToR is good.

For another example, on a certain level, the hyperdrive attack in The Last Jedi creates a lot of problems. But I don't mind it at all because it looked and sounded absolutely awesome. It was the peak of that movie. I disliked all the framing before/after, how it went into the story, the daft admiral character who I didn't feel got enough development (admittedly, probably related to Carrie Fisher's untimely death)... But the actual strike was amazing. I can forgive it all that just for that "wow" moment.

People come back to "canon says this" because when crap movies like Rise of Skywalker screw with the canon, people believe they have a deletirious effect on the rest of the franchise. Because Star Wars has a "main line" of episodes 1-9, as a fan, you know that anything else they make is going to relate to episode 9 in some way. Movies which stay very close to canon are easier to ignore because they don't introduce anything new that you're gonna have to try and ignore in the future.

Leia flying through space unassisted was not good. But Jedi can do that now. That's canon. Expect to see it again. That's the problem I think the larger group of fans have.

The point of all this; I think Disney/pundits are being cop-outs when they make blanket suggestions that "oh Star Wars fans just hate everything that's new". We had tons of conflicting, overlapping parts of the canon for ~20 years before Disney bought the franchise. We had comics, books, videogames, which honestly did not line up much of the time (and sometimes even contradicted the movies too, especially when eps1-3 came out!). And plenty of fans don't hate everything Disney have made. But stuff has to be good.

So Ahsoka, and time travel - that's all fine, because it's generally considered good. And yes, this is entirely subjective.

[Neon Ignition]

True, for me personally though I feel it would be a jump the shark thing. Like how fans of Fringe typically adore it, which I did too until the final season which for me utterly **** the bed by introducing elements that went far beyond the prior seasons established world building. Even if it were well made, it feels incredibly off putting. More like elements introduced now so that it's easier to churn out content rather than admit most of the worthwhile narrative has been told and walk away like the franchise used to.

That being said, I'm coming at this as well as someone who bounced off Clone Wars as it seemed reasonably well done but was ultimately very much a kids show focused on the least interesting era of the saga and as such even the idea that Anakin had a padawan feels ludicrous.

[Asura]

That being said, I'm coming at this as well as someone who bounced off Clone Wars as it seemed reasonably well done but was ultimately very much a kids show focused on the least interesting era of the saga and as such even the idea that Anakin had a padawan feels ludicrous.

That didn't bother me. But then again, I felt as though the Clone Wars era had a lot to offer, and Anakin having a Padawan seemed to make sense (I mean, he was a Jedi). But I had a soft spot for it, as I came to it originally from the Genndy Tartakovsky cartoons (the ones that shared some DNA with Samurai Jack), which I really loved at the time - some of my favourite parts of Star Wars.

EDIT: This all makes me wonder if Macross has the best approach to this. Someone once explained to me that in Macross, every movie, manga, story etc. - they're all fiction-in-fiction. Like a movie is, itself, a movie within the world of Macross, that those people in that universe make to document their own history. As a result, just like real historical movies, they'll get the general gist right, but many of the smaller details don't sync up, and are down to the interpretation of the fictional people who made it. It's a smart "get-out", because it brings the "creator wants to put their stamp on it" directly into the fiction.

[Dogg Thang]

(I mean, he was a Jedi)

He was never a master though and never really trusted on his own merits so it does seem odd that they'd give him someone to train. But I guess it was a time of war so perhaps that played a part.

[Asura]

Great episode of Ahsoka.

Bit of adventure, bit of space combat, bit of Jedi nonsense... Essentially what I tuned in for.

[Neon Ignition]

The Council suck, he gives in to his rage and massacres men, women and children in Ep2 with the Jedi Council able to detect concerns in the Force about him in Ep1 but come the massacre they promote him and put someone in his care. Shouldn't he have had an apprentice during the Vader years also?