Dune Messiah

[Asura]

There seems to be reports that this might be the middle film of three. Apologies if that was always the plan and everyone knew it but it was news to me. It’s funny, I don’t know if I’d have the patience for that. It’s likely I wouldn’t bother seeing this until part three is out if that turned out to be the case. The first was beautiful but was a partial experience, kind of like Spider-verse too although I probably got more from Spider-verse on its own. I’d be willing to bet, if this did turn out to be three parts, that some cinemas will run all three when the third comes out.

Anyway, hoping for a third act and a climax. Let’s not have another Shenmue here.

Yeah, strange one - because the first one was pretty unique in that it's like a movie that just kinda "stops". It clearly wasn't built around the idea of being a trilogy or set of movies; it's one long story.

I love Dune and I hope it's going to be a three-parter because I felt that they were making a mistake trying to cram the middle in.

The book has, broadly 3 parts; the Atreides are slaughtered at Arrakeen and Paul escapes, Paul lives with the Fremen and leads them in a guerilla war while learning about his powers, and Paul becomes the Kwisatz Haderach and leads his people against the Harkonnen and the forces of the emperor. The 80s movie largely skipped over the middle part, reducing the guerilla campaign to a short montage, meaning the bulk of the movie is the start and finish, and I was concerned that the new movie was going to do the same thing.

[Dogg Thang]

Does the first movie only cover that first part? So it makes sense that there would be two more?

[Asura]

Does the first movie only cover that first part? So it makes sense that there would be two more?

Yeah; sorry, I wasn't clear - this was how I felt coming out of Part 1 - like I felt I'd seen a "Part 1" which covered roughly 1/3rd of the story.

[Travesty]

What I read online was that the first 2 movies would go through the original book trilogy, and the third movie would be Dune Messiah, which is the fourth book. The first movie ended partway through the second book.

[fishbowlhead]

I’m sure Villeneuve said it was 2 parts? I may be wrong but he did say this a few times before the first came out, unless things have changed.

[Neon Ignition]

Dune: Part Two closes out the adaptation. He's open to a third film that would adapt Messiah in a single movie but he's kept that idea on a shelf as he considers it a stretch for Warner Bros to commit to it.

[Asura]

What I read online was that the first 2 movies would go through the original book trilogy, and the third movie would be Dune Messiah, which is the fourth book. The first movie ended partway through the second book.

Important to say here, as people might be confused - "books" is a confusing term when applied to Dune.

The large book you can buy, called "Dune", is technically 3 smaller books:

Book one: Dune
Book two: Muad'dib
Book three: The Prophet

("Dune Messiah" is the second actual book)

The De Laurentis movie in the 80s did all three of the Dune "books" in one movie, but it spent most of its time on 1, then sped through 2 at breakneck pace and ended with a truncated version of 3, with a slightly modified ending (and generally modified themes, to make the story shorter). Critically, the 80s movie smoothes over the prophecy about Paul (spoilered as this will likely come into the new movie):

->Open Spoiler<-

ALL religion in the Dune universe is a lie, spread and popularised by shadowy organisations.

This includes the Kwisatz Haderach. The BeneGessarit, having known the power of Christianity and Islam on ancient Earth, have seeded every world with a religion, that a messiah will come, "a voice from the outer world", who will lead its people to glory and freedom. This is a lie, one used to give them power within those societies.

Separately, they are engaging in a breeding program to create a male Bene Gesserit, something which has never existed before. It is though this person will be a "super-being", who will actually lead mankind to some sort of great truth (the name Kwisatz Haderach means 'the shorterner of the way'); but this belief is scientific, not religious - just it uses religious-sounding language.

In the 80s movie, the idea that Paul really is the Fremen messiah isn't really questioned. It doesn't have the depth of plot present in the book. Paul, upon becoming the super-being realises this, and understands the entire thing is a fiction. But in the movie, he adopts the persona willingly and even exercises godlike power to make it rain at the end, something entirely different to the tone of the book.

The new movie is already sewing seeds of this, and you hear in the trailer. In the book, Paul is terrified because he can see the future, and he knows humanity stands on a knife edge. He is haunted by dreams of cities, planets, whole societies burning, draped in the banner of his house - he knows that if he stretches out his hand and commands the people to start "the jihad", they will do so, and in a thousand years humankind will be dead and only ashes will remain. His goal in the book is to find a "middle way", and this is one of the more unique aspects of it.

The Villeneuve movie, at present, covers 1, and the very start of 2. What I meant earlier is they still have most of 2 and all of 3 to get through, and they skipped out the introduction of several major characters to achieve this, most notably Feyd Rautha (played by Sting in the original movie, Emperor Shaddam IV (played by Max Von Sydow in the original movie) and his daughter, Princess Irulan (played by Virgina Madsen; however, in all official cuts of the movie she has almost no screen time, a source of some controversy).

That's why I'm concerned if the Part Two movie wraps it up, because I can't help but feel it's going to do the same thing again, i.e. speed through Book 2 and have to somewhat condense Book 3.

[Neon Ignition]

For Part Two, as a non-Dune enthusiast, I'm mostly mindful if it will feel as soulless as Part One. I'm still unclear, given the praise, if it's supposed to be like that as it felt completely disengaging in terms of caring about the plot and characters.

[fishbowlhead]

Important to say here, as people might be confused - "books" is a confusing term when applied to Dune.

The large book you can buy, called "Dune", is technically 3 smaller books:

Book one: Dune
Book two: Muad'dib
Book three: The Prophet

("Dune Messiah" is the second actual book)

The De Laurentis movie in the 80s did all three of the Dune "books" in one movie, but it spent most of its time on 1, then sped through 2 at breakneck pace and ended with a truncated version of 3, with a slightly modified ending (and generally modified themes, to make the story shorter). Critically, the 80s movie smoothes over the prophecy about Paul (spoilered as this will likely come into the new movie):

->Open Spoiler<-

ALL religion in the Dune universe is a lie, spread and popularised by shadowy organisations.

This includes the Kwisatz Haderach. The BeneGessarit, having known the power of Christianity and Islam on ancient Earth, have seeded every world with a religion, that a messiah will come, "a voice from the outer world", who will lead its people to glory and freedom. This is a lie, one used to give them power within those societies.

Separately, they are engaging in a breeding program to create a male Bene Gesserit, something which has never existed before. It is though this person will be a "super-being", who will actually lead mankind to some sort of great truth (the name Kwisatz Haderach means 'the shorterner of the way'); but this belief is scientific, not religious - just it uses religious-sounding language.

In the 80s movie, the idea that Paul really is the Fremen messiah isn't really questioned. It doesn't have the depth of plot present in the book. Paul, upon becoming the super-being realises this, and understands the entire thing is a fiction. But in the movie, he adopts the persona willingly and even exercises godlike power to make it rain at the end, something entirely different to the tone of the book.

The new movie is already sewing seeds of this, and you hear in the trailer. In the book, Paul is terrified because he can see the future, and he knows humanity stands on a knife edge. He is haunted by dreams of cities, planets, whole societies burning, draped in the banner of his house - he knows that if he stretches out his hand and commands the people to start "the jihad", they will do so, and in a thousand years humankind will be dead and only ashes will remain. His goal in the book is to find a "middle way", and this is one of the more unique aspects of it.

The Villeneuve movie, at present, covers 1, and the very start of 2. What I meant earlier is they still have most of 2 and all of 3 to get through, and they skipped out the introduction of several major characters to achieve this, most notably Feyd Rautha (played by Sting in the original movie, Emperor Shaddam IV (played by Max Von Sydow in the original movie) and his daughter, Princess Irulan (played by Virgina Madsen; however, in all official cuts of the movie she has almost no screen time, a source of some controversy).

That's why I'm concerned if the Part Two movie wraps it up, because I can't help but feel it's going to do the same thing again, i.e. speed through Book 2 and have to somewhat condense Book 3.

Your never going to get exactly what’s in your head as to what should be in the movie, the Dune books are far too dense with too many facets to possibly cover everything in even multiple films.

[Asura]

Your never going to get exactly what’s in your head as to what should be in the movie, the Dune books are far too dense with too many facets to possibly cover everything in even multiple films.

Well of course. It's just that the new movies are another "crack at the whip", and it'd be a shame if they skip over the same parts of the plot as the prior attempt. I'm not one of those people who still quakes in fury that they didn't include Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings

[Finsbury Girl]

Cannot wait

[Neon Ignition]

Warners Eyes "Dune: Part Two" Delay To 2024? - Dark Horizons
Potential major delay inbound

Spicey

[charlesr]

I see what you did there!

[Neon Ignition]

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[Finsbury Girl]

On the bright side it gives more time for the Sydney IMAX to reopen so I can see this in mighty screen size