Confession: I have only seen part of one of the Garfield movies. Not even sure which one. What I saw seemed okay but I was a bit burned out on Spider-Man when they came out.
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That was the biggest issue with the first film. It was a reaction to the Maguire films but a reaction from a studio scared to make something too dissimilar from a franchise that had ended at a massive money making point. It was competent but the definition of safe. There's no clear vision, it's just more of the same but in a more sanitised manner like the studio was putting it out there to see how the audience reacted before deciding on what to do with it next.Comment
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Movie 33 - The Amazing Spider-Man 2
The film that attempted to launch a Sony universe before they launched a Sony universe. Here we saw Harry arrive, dying from a genetic illness, and Electro be born as Peter fought to protect Gwen. Sony had lined up multiple sequels to the film in addition to spin-offs focusing on Venom, the Sinister Six and Aunt May however the film would go on to mixed reviews and the franchises lowest box office earnings causing Sony to cancel every project and hit the reset button yet again. The greatest contributions the film immediately carries is that of Electro, another villain in No Way Home, and that this is the one real time in the franchise that Peter fails - Gwen falling to her death in a moment that closes this canon out and so No Way Home would be bringing in Garfields incarnation from the point of view of a Peter who has had to live with his greatest fears realised.
What could this final merging entry bring to the MCU and its Peter Parker?Last edited by Neon Ignition; 08-12-2021, 07:07.Comment
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I'm not sure what liking lasagna and hating mondays yadda yadda yaddaOriginally posted by Dogg Thang View PostComment
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I don't think the Garfield spiderman films are bad. I actually quite liked his wise cracking spiderman. It's just that they don't do anything new when compared to the original spiderman films. It's all a bit of a retread.Comment
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I'm probably the only one who feels this way but for me one of the issues (and there's a few) with the Garfield films, particularly this second one is that Garfield and Stone were dating so they get on well and have chemistry. The problem there is that the film is so keen to revel in it that it dominates a lot of the runtime. There's a lot of them being quippy and giggling with each other outside of key script moments but it felt a bit grating after a while and kind of says a lot that when I think of his films it's what comes to mind the most. At times it can make rewatches a little bit of a chore and whereas the first film was overly safe the sequel is pretty much the definition of a studio led film. The teases for the sinister six are weak, Harry is a very poor retread of what we'd had just two films before too. I know fans hated what was done with Electro but the actual execution of him looking electrically blue and the sequences he's in are things I like, I think he looks less interesting in No Way Home, but the comedic doofus stuff around him are what ruin him. Then there's the continuation of the Peter's Parents arc which is just bad, it's an arc that is difference for difference sake.
Overall, it's very much the middle step toward the MCU version of the character. In context of where we are I can see the clear bell curve but that's why I've always felt somewhat cold to Holland's Parker. If you brought me to the films fresh for the first time I feel like I'd still come to the same viewpoint on each incarnation.
Maguire: A quite, awkward orphaned smart kid with an interest in science and journalism who is socially awkward. An underdog who gets bitten by a spider and given the abilities of a spider. Soon loses one of the last remaining parts of his family and carries the weight of responsibility and guilt, has one friend who is naturally the only other kid at school who might have struggled to fit in and having faced loss is faced with giving up what he wants to keep them safe and to continue making others safe despite the costs it will carry for him - Result: Like
Garfield: A twitchy nerd with no friends despite his apparent confidence and an interest in science. Has no trouble getting the girl but gets bitten by a spider that his parents just so happened to have been involved in engineering. Has all the distinct powers except webbing but is super smart and concocts the webbing formula to become Spider-Man. Decides that keeping the girl safe is secondary to himself being with her - Result: So-so
Holland: A normal kid who only displays higher intelligence when rare specific plot points requires it and shows a keen interest in heroes, little in science and zero in journalism. Likes a girl, gets the girl, makes friends easily too. Was bitten by a spider but we don't know when or how, had an uncle but that death and his parents aren't even reference worthy so the character carries no trauma. Can't produce webbing, has the faintest form of spider-sense, is effectively Captain America in an Iron Man suit - Result: Meh
So yeah, to bring it back around it's very clear that even now everything that happens with Spider-Man and Peter Parker is still done so as a constant reaction to the Maguire incarnation. That first trilogy has defined everything that followed because even when Marvel took over control with the new versions alongside Sony they actively avoided steering the ship too close to what had come before but by skipping wanting to threepeat things they simply left them absent in their entirety and that for me has really hampered the character. Holland's Parker for me barely even qualifies as being the same character anymore because it's been watered down so severely.
When it comes to No Way Home and the previous films being rolled back in to the MCU canon it retrospectively brings several elements and plot points in via the older incarnations that in canon explains there being no expansion of Hollands character rather than it just being because of focus group testing or whatnot. There's so much I wish the Holland films would learn from the ones that came before, not least never to let Sony get carried away with Exec Minds wishes.
In terms of Maguire and Garfield, I suppose a lot rests on whether Sony views their return as being a No Way Home event moment or a door opening to either returning again in the future.
For Garfield I like the idea of him returning having lost Gwen, the obvious thing would be him teaching Holland's Parker about the cost it can have on those closest to him given how more open the MCU Parker is to people knowing his secret (especially in light of NWH's plot set up) and having some kind of redemption for himself.
For Maguire, presuming we're looking at the character being a decade older and now still being with MJ and maybe having a family it would be good for his to teach Holland's Peter about being Spider-Man without relying on tech, that having Stark suits and other world heroes doesn't have to be a crutch to be Spider-Man. It's harder to think of an arc with Maguire's Parker as things were pretty resolved at the end of SM3. In an ideal world I'd have Garfield's Parker help out Holland's again down the line whilst Sony would to the obvious $$$ move and bring back Raimi to make a proper Spider-Man 4, I'd be really interested to see a Parker SM film focused on the character later in life.
That way No Way Home really can wrap up a trilogy of Holland's Parker being a normal clutsy kid and start moving him toward resembling a proper Parker.Comment
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I caught up with Venom Let There Be Carnage last night and, while again not a fantastic movie, I enjoyed it and more so than the first film. It’s very similar but they dialled up the comedy with Venom here and that really worked for me, with the Eddie/Venom interactions being the highlight of the first movie for me. So this one delivered more of what I liked while not having anything like the generic mad scientist stuff that didn’t land with me in the first. It brought in a bit of an X-Men feel in there too, albeit a slightly darker version.
It’s a small movie that doesn’t reach very high and that probably works in its favour. Like the first, it relies a lot on Tom Hardy and the Venom character and that’s why it works.Comment
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Time to wrap things up in here for 2021 - SPOILER WARNING as we go into:
Movie 34 - Spider-Man: No Way Home
The film is out now and not only expands the scope of the MCU itself but also, as already covered above, the number of canonical film entries into this ever growing saga. The film is the biggest in scale of the trilogy and also of the MCU since the last Avenger film duo release. It manages to wrap up a college era trilogy whilst also setting up a future path for the franchise in addition to aspects for the MCU itself and two other arms of the Spider-Man franchise.
How in important do you consider the story events of the film to be to the franchise and the MCU itself as we move further forward through the fourth phase and beyond?Comment
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This is a good point, but it’s very important to acknowledge that that’s the point. Stark was the father figure whom was continually let down by a Peter Parker who was a reluctant local hero at best. At times, Holland’s Spider-Man aspired to live up to the billing invested in him by Stark, but his natural desire to live the teen life frequently eroded that. Up until Endgame, he always had bigger heroes to lean on; they were his get-out clause. Far From Home saw him unable to cope with the pressure and loneliness of responsibility, handing over the role that Stark saw in him to the first Billy Big Bollocks that came along.
I think it’s a well-written and consistent arc, whether people like the journey or not.Comment
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I can’t get involved in the spoiler talk but, in terms of that Far From Home point, it made absolutely no sense of me. Given everyone available in the MCU, Stark is going to hand that stuff over to Peter Parker? Why though? I still wish we had git a local smaller sequel to Homecoming without all the Stark stuff.Comment
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I guess because he saw a pure of heart, morally good person. Someone who wasn’t corrupted by ego or megalomania. Black Panther already had tech stuff and preferred to remain hidden. Strange was Stark-level ego. Thor had gone. Banner was too unstable. Cap was gone. There wasn’t really an option, other than the kid who he had identified something special in earlier.Originally posted by Dogg Thang View PostComment
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Leaving tech to Peter made sense given their relationship but the nature of the tech that was left was nutsComment
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Yes, a bit of an error to give EDITH to Peter without instruction.Comment
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Did they mention why Rhodey wasn’t left with it?Comment
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