Canon-Strike VI: Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Neon Ignition]

Side fact for the week - The Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't the most profitable Cinematic Universe

It's made a lot more money than the most profitable one thanks to the sums involved, merchandising etc but on a direct budget to profit ratio the Conjuring Cinematic Universe has been vastly more successful.

The cost of making MCU films has so far cost the equivalent of 22% of what the films have brought in
For the CCU, the films have cost just 6% of what they've brought in showcasing why there'll be no end in sight for Conjuring spin-offs

[Dogg Thang]

at least this time he had official sanction to do it.

Which then seems not to matter when he cuts off communications with Ross and goes after Cap and Bucky unsanctioned and seemingly breaking the accords and doing exactly what he was fighting his teammates for only minutes before. His actions go against every line up to that point in the film... which went against his actions in Ultron... which went against his actions in Iron Man 3. He's Mr Plot Device Switcheroo! Had Civil War taken place directly after Iron Man 3, his words at the start of the film would carry more weight because he experienced growth in that movie. But unfortunately Ultron scrubbed away that growth. But like I say, the actions in the last third of Civil War scrub away anything he says in the rest of the movie - he doesn't subscribe to the accords he got into a playground fight about.

[QualityChimp]

Pftt. They're just Chucky+.
@prinnysquad, I don't disagree with you, and I also like the airport fight, but it's just that stretch to get to everyone falling out that I couldn't take.

I wonder if Marvel wanted it to be ambiguous or steer us to one side or the other.
I'm assuming they want the audience to be pro-Cap?

[Dogg Thang]

I'm assuming they want the audience to be pro-Cap?

Yeah, it's labelled a Captain America film and I think this is probably a big factor because it's completely one-sided. Stark turns out to be wrong about pretty much everything in the movie and even those on his side betray him so, yeah, having Cap in the right was probably intentional.

[QualityChimp]

The title swayed me, but as was said, it doesn't feel like a Captain America film, more Avengers 2.5.

I felt the comics were more ambiguous, but I guess they're also Cap biased.

[Neon Ignition]

Hence it should have been a factor in worked in to the previous film and Cap 3 kept as Cap 3.

We should probably take a moment to tip our caps to Sharon Carter as well. She gets one snog in this and then is resigned to the Marvel Dumpster Pit of Superhero Girlfriends here after

[prinnysquad]

Which then seems not to matter when he cuts off communications with Ross and goes after Cap and Bucky unsanctioned and seemingly breaking the accords and doing exactly what he was fighting his teammates for only minutes before. His actions go against every line up to that point in the film... which went against his actions in Ultron... which went against his actions in Iron Man 3. He's Mr Plot Device Switcheroo! Had Civil War taken place directly after Iron Man 3, his words at the start of the film would carry more weight because he experienced growth in that movie. But unfortunately Ultron scrubbed away that growth. But like I say, the actions in the last third of Civil War scrub away anything he says in the rest of the movie - he doesn't subscribe to the accords he got into a playground fight about.

Oh he’s definitely a complicated and arrogant character. His 180 isn’t complete or set in stone, and he liberally dips in and out when he thinks he knows best. That’s the symptom of a narcissist. His Lazarus conversion isn’t whole and that’s what gives him edge and depth.

[prinnysquad]

PS - loving the debate, guys.

It’s a great series to delve into the minutiae of.

[Dogg Thang]

Hmmm... not convinced it's depth rather than inconsistency born of convenience and muddled storytelling.

The result of it is that, in the world of the stories, he is the danger. He's the one who will create the threats. The one who will punch his friends to repeat all his mistakes. The one who will punch his friends so they will adhere to rules he then won't. He's a bad friend. They should make a movie called Stark: Bad Friend. It would be a dark comedy and I'd come out complaining that I was given no reason to like the main character.

[monel]

I haven't seen all the Marvel films but have seen a fair few. Never read the Civil War comics but when I saw the film not too long ago it didnt seem like a war more like a Civil Row. The last fight makes me think of two kids playing with their action figures. Not sure if an airport was the right location even though it's usually a great Ridge Racer track. I don't mean to dismiss it at all, I was a bit distracted watching it but was left just underwhelmed by it all. I liked the Ultron one more for some reason and IW was pretty epic.

[Neon Ignition]

Movie 14 - Doctor Strange
We're back in Iron Man territory for this origin story that shares a fair number of parallels with Starks first tale, Strange undertaking the journey of trauma through to superhero albeit one who's more of an initial target for Thanos than Tony is. The character plays a fairly central role in Infinity War but it's fairly safe to say he's not had that huge an impact on audiences as of yet.



Worthy addition to the canon?

[Asura]

That's a much more convincing argument for starting the Superhero Registration Act, but that's because there are so many of them in the comics. It doesn't work in the films.

Bear in mind also that this is a concept from the comics - I don't think it even exists in the films? I think they liked the idea of Civil War, and how it turned Cap against Iron Man, but I think it's meant to be about how, in the post-9/11 America, people have become more polarised and are struggling to find common ground in changing world, all the while losing trust in the ideals that their country stands for. The movies made it a smaller, personal dispute, and whilst I loved the action, it didn't quite have the same weight.

I like the antman films, but I never really got the concept. It looks a bit silly when he's tiny and punching people with seamingly the same force as captain America. I don't understand.

Personally I LOVE this. I loved how inventive and rapid the action scenes could be. I was even willing to forgive the inconsistencies, such as Pym having a real shrunken tank on his keys (when the established "rules" would suggest it'd be tiny, but still dense so that it'd weigh as much as a tank) because the idea was just so fun and cool, which really is what matters when it comes down to it.

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, there are a lot of stretches in the Ant-Man movies, such as how a handle fits in a building and how everything doesn't just get thrown around when they move it... but I'm willing to look past those because it has so much fun and the shrinking tricks are used so well.

Doctor Strange is a movie I really enjoyed but it is in part a retread of Iron Man without as much personal growth, I feel. His motivations feel more selfish. And by the end of the movie, I'm not sure I know who Dr Strange is, like I don't know his character. He still feels like a blank slate to me. But I enjoyed the movie, Wong is brilliant and there are some superb visuals in it. And I also love that the end "battle" plays out in a way that is different to the big fight that other Marvel movies all descend into. So for me it's an enjoyable movie with some cool stuff but it's probably not all that high up my list.

He works well in Infinity War but even then I don't feel I know his role. Maybe that's the point... he's an enigma.

[prinnysquad]

I love Doctor Strange. I remember leaving the cinema and been underwhelmed, then watching it again on dvd and it clicking. The mirror realm stuff is really neat, as is the time loop concept used to bore Dormammu (? Can’t remember) into conceding defeat.

Cumberbatch really nails the role. Strange is like Stark, but with a more developed sense of perspective and his role in the universe. Wong is a likeable foil, and the cape is ace. The magical effects are brilliant. I wish they’d use it with a tad more creativity, but Strange showcased that in IW.

[prinnysquad]

Ha ha it’s not like us to say the opposite about a character, Dogg.