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The Films You Watched Thread VI: The Undiscovered Movie

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    Saint Maud is another one on the list of films to "experience" rather than "enjoy"!

    You must still have the house to yourself, Fuse!

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      Scarface (1983 via Netflix).

      I swear I've seen this before, but I barely remember any of it, so maybe not and I thought I had from seeing so many clips over the years.

      I liked it, but didn't love it.

      There's lots going for it and I was gripped to watch the rise and fall of Tony Montana, but I was mainly looking forward to his downfall, because he's an unlikeable prick.

      Not sure how he seems to get held up as some kind of icon and he's thoroughly unlikeable throughout.
      I struggled to fathom why people would want to hang out with him, date him, work for him or work with him because he's so unhinged. Fair play to Pacino and I was gripped by his portrayal throughout.
      Love how he's got big brass balls, even when facing a chainsaw.

      It's quite long, but when you reach the ending, it's electric seeing his empire topple within minutes.
      I've got to get me some of that moreish cocaine that makes you bulletproof!

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        I absolutely love Scarface. I think the unlikeability of Tony Montana is a common criticism levelled at it, but it's never been one that I've jived with personally. The whole film is constructed around the fact that he is a totally corrupting influence on everything he touches. It's vital that he's unlikeable.

        Although it's a brilliant standalone film, I also love what it does in terms of being a remake too. Surely one of the greatest reinterpretations of all time.

        Originally posted by QualityChimp
        I struggled to fathom why people would want to hang out with him, date him, work for him or work with him because he's so unhinged.


        Apart from Manny and Gina, who are naive enough to have genuine loyalty to Tony, no one associates with him for any reason other than they feel they can exploit him. In return, he only associates with them because he can feels he can exploit them more.

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          DOUBLE POST

          Really not been on top of films lately but I was so happy last night to find Mikey and Nicky (1971) on YouTube.

          This is a film I've wanted to see for ages but it's quite hard to source, as it's not legitimately available on streaming in the UK and only available on Blu-ray in the US on the Criterion Collection (I don't have a region free BD player sadly).

          However, some cheeky soul uploaded a rip of the Criterion Blu to YouTube a couple of months ago, so I was able to watch it there - battling through the inevitable compression artifacts and effed up colours to do so!

          It was well worth it. This is such a great film and another classic by Elaine May, who is IMO one of the most underrated directors. If you're not familiar, she was an improv comedian with Mike Nichols, before both turned their hand to directing. Her comedies A New Leaf and The Heartbreak Kid (not the Ben Stiller remake) are both total bangers.

          The story concerns a pair of two-bit gangsters played by John Cassevetes (Nicky) and Peter Falk (Mikey). Nicky has gotten himself into trouble with their mob boss after stealing some money from him. He calls on his childhood pal Mikey to help bail him out and spirit him out of town. But Mikey's under pressure from the boss to bring him in for execution.

          There follows an odyssey around nighttime early 70s New York, and a tacit negotiation between the two characters about their relationship and loyalties. Nicky is paranoid that Mikey's always tapping up payphones because he's letting the boss know where Nicky is - and with good reason - but can't let fully accuse Mikey lest he lose his only friend and supporter. And Mikey is torn between his loyalties to his old friend, and his position in life as a successful mobster with a wife and kid and house in an exclusive neighbourhood.

          They tour bars, all night movie theaters and a cemetery, always one step ahead of the boss's hitman, always jabbering, subtly negotiating. It's great. You've got to be in the mood for that kind of taciturn, slow paced 70s feel, but if you are it's an absolute gem.

          EDIT:

          By the way, just in terms of Elaine May's other stuff - A New Leaf is on Blu-ray in the UK under the Eureka Masters of Cinema label (and it's a very nice version).

          The Heartbreak Kid is in copyright hell and will never be legitimately rereleased for the foreseeable.

          However, it can be found in an AI upscale on the Internet Archive:

          https://thefilmstage.com/elaine-mays-the-heartbreak-kid-has-never-looked-better/

          I've not watched this version, but it looks on a quick scan through much much better than the crappy DVD rip I watched it on.
          Last edited by wakka; 26-04-2023, 09:45.

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            Originally posted by wakka View Post
            I absolutely love Scarface. I think the unlikeability of Tony Montana is a common criticism levelled at it, but it's never been one that I've jived with personally. The whole film is constructed around the fact that he is a totally corrupting influence on everything he touches. It's vital that he's unlikeable.

            Although it's a brilliant standalone film, I also love what it does in terms of being a remake too. Surely one of the greatest reinterpretations of all time.



            Apart from Manny and Gina, who are naive enough to have genuine loyalty to Tony, no one associates with him for any reason other than they feel they can exploit him. In return, he only associates with them because he can feels he can exploit them more.
            [/COLOR]
            I should probably clarify I wasn't criticising it for Montana being unlikeable - for me, that was the draw. How far can one man go with just big brass balls? Turns out it's pretty far.

            I've been thinking about it a bit, which is a good sign, but I think Tony screws over pretty much everyone he interacts with in the film!
            From the fast food counter manager onwards, everyone ends up dead either by his hand or his actions.

            I guess his Mom's okay because she wanted nothing to do with him!

            I don't get the relationship with Elvira. She seems to loathe him, then ready to have kids with him in the next scene.

            It feels like Montana has hit the big leagues and he's seen in a montage laughing on the phone with the other drug bosses, like he's one of them, but when it gets down to it, they force him to perform an assassination. More elaborate than the stabbing in the immigrant tent village, but it shows that Tony hasn't really gotten beyond his errand boy role in their eyes.

            Genuinely enjoying watching/rewatching the movies on my bucket list poster, like this.
            Tonight it's Alien in a double-bill with Aliens at the cinema, which I'm pumped for.

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              I'll watch out for that @wakka ... sounds great and 'nighttime early 70s New York' definitely appeals.

              I've been slowly making my way through the hours and hours of extras on the Texas Chain Saw 4k. It's a goldmine of goodies. Fave so far is Flesh Wounds: Seven Stories of the Saw ... a particulat highlight being Edwin Neal's (plays the hitchhiker) bit who stumbled into the auditions by chance and Tobe Hooper asked him if he could be weird. It's been a while since one release has given so much ... both with the revisit of a film looking substantially better than ever before and a huge amount of extras, both readable and watchable. No release will top this one this year for me.

              My eldest asked to watch Get Out last night so we had another viewing. it's such a fun film. I love a scary story with the

              everyone is in on it factor ... the girlfriend with the keys bit is great

              . It's a fun rewatch too, with early tells and hints happening throughout. And TSA agent Rod is brilliant
              Last edited by Atticus; 26-04-2023, 11:00.

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                Aliens
                Yesterday was Alien Day so I spent the evening at the cinema watching the second entries Director's Cut. It's always great finally catching a classic film at the cinema but this stood out as other than a few too obviously a model model shots aside it just doesn't reflect the year it was made or age at all. It's a masterclass in physical and practical effects and just ****'s all over Cameron's recent... efforts.

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                  Because I'm even better than Neon, I did the Alien/Aliens double-bill at the cinema.

                  Alien (1979 via cinema)
                  So, the shot of the chestburster running off and Ash's reveal have aged a little, but I sat thinking how astonishing it was how little the film has aged.
                  "Haunted House in space" is such a good summary because they're working in such a bloody spooky environment.
                  As Neon says, it's easier to spot the miniatures these days, but they still hold up. The scene were the Nostromo's landing ship touches down on LV-426 is brilliant.
                  With the cinema surround, I noticed the use of sound a lot more and the juxtaposition of loud and quiet, like the raging storm or screeching score's strings, to moments of quiet which really highlight the tension.
                  I loved those long shots just drinking in the ship's interiors.

                  Having seen this before, I particularly enjoyed watching

                  Ash, the chief Science Officer. Knowing how he has a different agenda to everyone else and looking for those telltale signs. When Kane is having is convulsions, everyone is checking he's OK, but Ash is studying him. When Ripley is refusing to let Kane back on the ship, it's Ash that breaks all quarantine protocols against Ripley's orders.
                  His final scene where he tries to kill Ripley is such a brilliant reveal and the whole thing is so intense as he's choking Ripley, scratching Parker and hitting Lambert, then flailing around when he's hit.
                  When he gets up again, and trying to kill Parker, he's doing these pointy hands thing like he's going to stab him with them.
                  The final F-you after being reactivated is to say he admires the perfect being and hints he thinks they'll all die and smiles about it.


                  Seeing the film on the big screen, I spotted that the Nostromo has a Mr. Fusion.



                  Aliens (1986 via cinema)
                  I think I saw Aliens before Alien whilst growing up and at first I remember seeing the trailer on some VHS I had and thinking I'm never going to watch that because it looks terrifying. Let's just say I'm glad I did!

                  They talk about the miniatures on the commentary track and explain how they run it at a lower speed to give it some heft, but you can tell some of them, but it's still refreshing to see something totally barren of computer effects.

                  I'm sure you've all seen it and love it too, but what a treat to see this absolute roller coaster of a movie on the big screen.
                  That whole end section of the film from "Can't be, that's inside the room!" is just amazing.

                  The earlier sections are great as you can just feel Ripley's frustration as absolutely everyone patronises her and underestimates just how deadly the xenomorphs are.

                  We were shown the Special Edition, which is brilliant, but we've discussed how sometimes less is more.
                  Love the sentry gun sequence - I can't believe how tense just watching numbers count down is!
                  Love the Dwayne/Ellen moment.
                  Undecided about the additional detail about her daughter, although it explains the bond with Newt.
                  Dislike the Hadley's Hope footage as it's unecessary and removes some of the tension when the marines arrive.
                  Plus it's got Red Dwarf's Captain Hollister and he'll always be Captain Hollister.

                  Seeing the film on the big screen, I spotted that the Sulaco has a fruit machine HOLD button to close the airlock.

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                    Haha, great spots on the Mr Fusion and the fruit machine button! The plunger type buttons also resemble the ones used by ride operators at theme parks!

                    Hollywood really got their money's worth out of the investment in coffee grinder that played Mr Fusion.

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                      Our cinema didn't even give the option of watching the first Alien I feel better now though as previous to last night the only Alien films I'd seen on the big screen was everything post-Resurrection so hardly peak era

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                        He's quite the celebrity!

                        Transformers Shockwave also makes a subtle appearance in the sequel:



                        Apparently, Carrie Henn (Newt) fluffed her lines on the bit where she slides down the airshaft on purpose so she could get to do the slide a couple of times!

                        She's a 4th Grade teacher now!

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                          Dislike the Hadley's Hope footage as it's unnecessary and removes some of the tension when the marines arrive.
                          Have to disagree; it shows Newt's backstory and her family's not insignificant part in the main plot. I miss it when the version being shown excludes it.

                          It is often broadcast on various UK Freeview channels.They did the whole Alien series over a few weeks, including A versus P, not so long ago and I was disappointed the additional Aliens' content was not included.

                          According to various sources James Cameron thinks the additional content should have been left in the original US theatrical release. He regards the Special Edition director's cut as being better and what he wanted until late on forced to cut 15 minutes from the film to accommodate US cinema audiences' short attention spans.

                          Sigourney Weaver likewise, even, reportedly, saying she would not make another Alien if the director's original intended version was not made available.
                          Last edited by fallenangle; 27-04-2023, 13:29.

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                            So, I'm glad I have a choice of 2 versions and I saw the theatrical cut first without the Hadley's Hope section.
                            I'm happy I've had a chance to see more of the story afterwards.

                            We've chatted about cuts to films before, but quite often, they're left out for good reason - pacing or narrative reasons.

                            Did you know there's still a scene where Ripley discovers a cocooned Burke?
                            That's still left out and when you watch it, it detracts from Ripley's mission to find Newt ASAP.


                            This is a really fun article about finding the balance between the two versions:
                            How one man found his favourite cut of James Cameron's Aliens lying half-way between the theatrical release and the Special Edition.


                            "The sequences I was most eager to lose were the early ones on LV-426. Undoubtedly it was thrilling to see a happier vision of the colony, but – as well as adding to the runtime- I’ve always felt that it creates a few problems.

                            Crucially those busy colony scenes ruin the mystery behind the darkened, battle-torn Hadley’s Hope that the marines discover when they arrive. As things play out in the theatrical cut, we can only imagine what the colony might have been like and what horrors must have occurred here. Losing that mystery by spelling things out early on destroys a fair bit of the film’s suspense.


                            I’ve always found the scene with Newt’s family investigating the derelict site to be the nearest Cameron’s film gets to B-movie sequel, and it just felt too neat to me that not only is Newt the colony’s only survivor, but her Dad was the first victim – so that was out.


                            The final reason to lose those scenes is that they show the company’s hand too early in the film. We learn that Weyland-Yutani has wilfully sent the colonists in to investigate the derelict colony, which rather ruins Burke’s big reveal later on."

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                              That's kind of how the Hope scenes hit me too. I prefer not seeing it pre-assault and Newt works better as a random survivor than as involved from the outset

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                                Never even heard about that Burke scene until now.

                                Still have to disagree about the director's cut upsetting the balance and pacing. I read another article about it which suggested an additional story component I had not considered. That is Ripley's insistence on the danger to the colony, apparently dismissed by The Company, might have been the trigger for what happened to Newt's family.

                                The suggestion being Newt's father had been sent, unwittingly, to find out if what Ripley had said about the alien space ship was true. Let us remember that is exactly what happened in the original film, so somebody in The Company back then knew about it at the time. As there were no survivors to tell the tale until Ripley showed up that information would have remained hidden and forgotten until then. But there would have been records.

                                So the Hadley's Hope scenes are actually important to the plot. The Company were reminded by Ripley that there was something 'interesting' on the planet, probably more valuable to them than the colonists' lives. Subsequently Ripley realises this is what has happened again and she was, also unwittingly, partly to blame and feeling guilty for what happened to Newt's family and the rest of the colonists.

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