Official F1/Motorsport thread

[VR46]

More info on the goings on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

Surprised FA & PDLR aren't getting a kicking after reading that.

Roll on tomorrow's qualifying, I'll be tuning in, love Spa and so pleased to see it back on the calendar.

[Richard.John]

Yes, but FA and PDLR would have their super licences revoked if the FIA later found out that they had concealed evidence. It was in their best interest to reveal what they knew.

[Simmy]

Yes, but FA and PDLR would have their super licences revoked if the FIA later found out that they had concealed evidence. It was in their best interest to reveal what they knew.

It's nothing to do to me with what extent FA PDLR or even LH were wrapped up within this spying, it's more the fact that Maclaren have been judged to of gained a performance advantage of an undetermined degree from this information. That performance advantage can surely only be obtained through the use of the 07 car, surely making it illegal, and that is why I cannot understand how they can keep the points they've earned with it, and go on to earn more points with it !

I'm sure in the end it will be judged as a decision in the best interest of the sport, but really is it sport if the outcome is decided through actions like these. No different to allowing a rider to win the tour de france even after testing positive for performance enhancing drugs, due to the fact he did not know what he was taking, that just would not happen, as DC said to ITV !

I'll watch Spa this weekend to get the vast number of expert opinions they will have on this, but after that I can see me tuning out of F1 for a good period of time !

[Dazzyman]

Well for me this is just another nail in the coffin to stop watching it and Ive watched every single race since 1990. It is getting way too political for me. I really do not like what has gone on at Mclaren, for me it horrifies me to begin with that few months ago nothing happened to them with being done over this and its only when it was pushed further by Ferrari (mainly them pursing Stepney for prosection when Mclarens own bloke nothing happened!) that this has happened. The men involved in both Ferrari and Mclaren want jail time for this (what happened to the Mclaren tech I know Ferrari are pursuing Stepney over this?) and for me Mclaren want kicking out alltogether for this season and be made to build a new car from scratch for next year.

My main disapointment is with the outcome though for me its either one or the other, so they have been found to have the complete makeup of a car and the teams inner workings even car setups/brake,tyre stats etc.. or they havent. If they have and from whats come to light about Alonso they have, then they have clearly been given an unfair advantage so in that case I feel at the very least Alonso wants stripping of his points as well and the same for Hamilton. I feel they should just get kicked out for the season as this really damages the sport all together. Only reason I see is that we have a British driver involved what could win the championship so their giving leeway but if their guilty their guilty as a whole team, because the drivers wouldnt be as fast etc.. without this data, so thats what I cannot understand their either guilty completely as a team or they arent, you cannt say its ok for the drivers to cheat and race for a team and if their caught cheatin its just the team mfr what gets done not the driver, shall we start doping horses in horse racing then but as long as the Jockey is ok then let em win then?

[djjimbob]

It all depends on how much of the stolen information was used and what effect did it have on the races invloved. It only covers a partial amount of the season, or so I've read.

Also, whether the information that FO and Rosa were talking about could have been discovered thru other routes.

I am sure there is plenty of other espionage going on and copying within F1 teams. A copied wing design here, a copied suspension rod there - a lot of it is available to see on TV.

[VR46]

Yes, but FA and PDLR would have their super licences revoked if the FIA later found out that they had concealed evidence. It was in their best interest to reveal what they knew.

Point I was making was they (FA & PDLR) knew full well what they were doing was illegal and yet they've escaped without punishment.

[Simmy]

It all depends on how much of the stolen information was used and what effect did it have on the races invloved. It only covers a partial amount of the season, or so I've read.

To me it does not. They have been judged to of gained a performance advantage through this spying and the "team" has been punished for it, but the car which contains this performance advantage, and the drivers that well drive it are aloud to remain and continue in the season. That makes no sence to me at all.

Well I think I've given my opinion on this enough now !

[djjimbob]

They have not proved that Hamilton was in the know.

But banning just Alonso would make the title race meaningless.

[Shez]

Hamilton will have benefited just as Alonso has - Which makes a mockery of only taking manufacture points away.

If I was a Ferrari man I would have expected more of a punishment - Bernie appears to have pushed forward the fine alternative rather than a 07/08 ban and as usual he has gotten his way. Mclaren have got off lightly in my book, a percentage of that fine is going to be payed out of this season's winnings anyway, so it isn't even a true figure fine.

This season is so badly tarnished now, that if a Mclaren driver wins the championship then it will be forever tainted.

[Rossco]

They couldnt possibly punish Hamilton or Alonso by removing them from the championship this season as that takes out everything F1 is about this year and ratings/tickets bought would most likely plummet. And it would have a continuous effect for future seasons as alot of people will have just started watching F1 this season thanks to LH and probably wouldnt go back if he was chucked out.

I agree its still messed up though, and Ferrari must be absolutely raging that nothing has happened to LH or FA but what can you do. I'm a Hamilton fan so I'm glad he's still in it.

[Dazzyman]

Eeek anyone seen qualifying today? Max Mosley really kicked off after the Ron Dennis interview near enough calling him a liar. Sounds to me Mclaren have actually got off very lightly and it could still get much worse next year. Sounds also like Alonso has done a whistleblower with evidence thats why he didnt get done.

[Richard.John]

The odd thing is that, earlier in the season, RD said that whistle blowing is good for the sport.

[Alastair]

Ignore me, shouldn't have posted from my pda as soon as i got up so didn't see other thread.

[MartyG]

Hmm - that turned out to be one of the most boring races all season. Bar the first couple of corners I was falling asleep.

[Senna]

Indeed. All it really confirmed to me is that, at this moment, Raikkonen is a bit faster than Massa, and Alonso is slightly quicker than Hamilton, as at Monza.

The only highlights were the first corner, Hamilton and Alonso side by side through Eau Rouge.

With the tragic news of Colin Mcrae's death, it really just hit home to me how much the WRC has slipped into obscurity. It doesnt get the media coverage anymore, and it has lost (or is losing) all of its stars.

Think how many star drivers who were there only three or four years ago. Tommi Makkinen, Juha Kankkunen, Colin Mcrae, Richard Burns, Carlos Sainz, Marko Martin. And Marcus Gronholm is retiring at the end of the year, while Peter Solberg is driving a totally unreliable and uncompetitive Subaru.

I think it all stemmed from the dominance of Loeb who is just a machine. Add that to the stupid decisions to change the rally layouts, abolish old classics like the Kenya Rally (a complete test of endurance, and where pictures of the cars roaring past tribal Africans became symbolic), and manufacturers losing interest and leaving.

Does anyone think the WRC can regain its glory, or is it gone forever?