Official F1/Motorsport thread

[Richard.John]

A bitter pill is the fact that had they backed Fernando, they probably would have won the drivers title. It will be interesting if the Macca turns out to be dog, as Lewis will find himself without a ready made winner of a car, so will have to pull the team forward with his driving.

[sharky_ob]

I feel they are both too young and inexperienced to be car developers. That was a big skill they lost when they let Alonso go early. I would give 50% of the credit to Alonso for Lewis' winning car of last year, that must have been a bitter pill for 'Nando to swallow!

I think 50% might be a bit much. The rest of the 200 odd people who work for McLaren might be a bit put out by that.

Edit - Is Nando that person who makes those fine sauces for chicken?

[Alastair]

I take your point but - there's only 3 people on the whole team that drive the actual car though and can give their feedback to those hundreds involved in producing it. Some super clever dude that makes brake pads wont have a clue how it actually feels on the car or how it 'should' feel.

[sharky_ob]

I take your point but - there's only 3 people on the whole team that drive the actual car though and can give their feedback to those hundreds involved in producing it. Some super clever dude that makes brake pads wont have a clue how it actually feels on the car or how it 'should' feel.

And Alonso (or any driver), would have no idea how to make said pads, or how to translate what he wants to feel into working items to stick on the car.

I think this whole, 'drivers who help build cars' thing is overblown as it makes good press. Their feedback in terms of setup is obviously invaluable, but I really don't see how a driver can say, 'I want this, this and this' and a team of engineers can suddenly conjure it up.

[Alastair]

And Alonso (or any driver), would have no idea how to make said pads, or how to translate what he wants to feel into working items to stick on the car.

I think this whole, 'drivers who help build cars' thing is overblown as it makes good press. They're feedback in terms of setup is obviously invaluable, but I really don't see how a driver can say, 'I want this, this and this' and a team of engineers can suddenly conjure it up.

They don't need to know how to make the components do they. They need to be able to convey accurately the feeling and handling of said components. All the engineers can do is best guess.

Say the car is a bit too oversteery, a good development driver will be able to pin down exactly why, be it downforce, tyre pressures, camber, suspension rates or angles. A bad development driver will just say it's too oversteery and they would have to test every different component exclusively until they find what it was.

That's why I say 50%, needing a new suspension arm designed is fine but a good driver will tell the team how and why it needs to be different from the old design. A proper team effort.

[sharky_ob]

They don't need to know how to make the components do they. They need to be able to convey accurately the feeling and handling of said components. All the engineers can do is best guess.

Say the car is a bit too oversteery, a good development driver will be able to pin down exactly why, be it downforce, tyre pressures, camber, suspension rates or angles. A bad development driver will just say it's too oversteery and they would have to test every different component exclusively until they find what it was.

That's why I say 50%, needing a new suspension arm designed is fine but a good driver will tell the team how and why it needs to be different from the old design. A proper team effort.

Fair enough. I think anyone who can do that just from driving a car should be burned as a witch though.

[Alastair]

Or be multiple World Champion And deservedly so. I don't even like Alonso

[Shez]

To be fair one of the reasons Schumacher was so succesful was due to his ability to diagnose and steer the engineers in the right direction with what he wanted from the car - Alonso is another who is gifted with the same ability.

It's a big reason Barrichello got the drive over Senna this season.

[Roddie]

I'd love to see Brawn GP fighting at the front, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Richard.John]

There is an old story on the net somewhere about Senna, back in the 80s, telling his engineers (Honda or Renault) that his engine had a problem, during qualy or something, and would they look into it. They assured him that the telemetry was fine, but he insisted that something was not quite right. The engine was later stripped down and a fault was found which apparently proved the Brazilian's assertions, thus he picked it up just from the feel being different.

Of course the story may well have been embellished, to some degree, given the driver in question's status, but still rather interesting.

It brings us to the question of just how do you describe a sense or feeling? If someone asks what it's like to drive quickly, how would you explain such? Net geeks say things like, oh my granny could drive a modern F1 car, they are so automated. Bull****... is my reply. They couldn't drive one, in anger, for more than a lap as their their neck muscles would throw in the towel, let alone, give diagnostic feedback to the team about how the car is behaving.
F1 drivers are a special breed.

[Richard.John]

Another practice start. JB vs RK. Maybe it's tyre testing or something.

[Darwock]

It brings us to the question of just how do you describe as sense or feeling? If someone asks what it's like to drive quickly, how would you explain such? Net geeks say things like, oh my granny could drive a modern F1 car, they are so automated. Bull****... is my reply. They couldn't drive one, in anger, for more than a lap as their their neck muscles would throw in the towel, let alone, give diagnostic feedback to the team about how the car is behaving.
F1 drivers are a special breed.

This was one of Michael Schumacher's many strengths, his abillity to technically diagnose and explain the performance issues of the car. In contrast, I remember seeing a documentary about high speed racing and they did a spot on Mark Blundell in the IRL.. at one point his engineer asked what was wrong with the car and Mark replied "It's bollocks mate." wow thanks!

[sharky_ob]

This was one of Michael Schumacher's many strengths, his abillity to technically diagnose and explain the performance issues of the car. In contrast, I remember seeing a documentary about high speed racing and they did a spot on Mark Blundell in the IRL.. at one point his engineer asked what was wrong with the car and Mark replied "It's bollocks mate." wow thanks!

To be fair, that's actually quite lucid for Blundell.

The man what says what.

[Alastair]

I'm not going to miss Blundell this year one little bit

[Roddie]

TBH, I'd rather have Mark Blundell than Jake Humphrey. I'm glad we'll still have Brundle and Kravitz though.