Amy Winehouse RIP xxxx

[dataDave]

I hate drug users, idiots.

What do you class as a drug user? Where do you draw the line? Do you have many friends?

[Ady]

I knew a fair few people in the latter years of secondary school who smoked weed. At least 2 are now schizophrenic (is that how you spell it?) and even at the time some of them were very paranoid!

What this says to me is that the substance in question doesn't agree with some people. Not everyone who smokes weed ends up this way.

What always intrigues me about drugs-related debates is the complete lack of perspective, and the smug sanctimony of some debaters. These sort of issues are seldom black and white, but are always presented that way.

My wife works with people who think "just one toke" won't ruin their life. Guess what? Drugs are bad after all!

You cant put all drugs into one category as you appear to have done above. It doesn't make sense as they all do different things, thus the term is too broad.

Beyond that, I actually find it extremely hard to believe that the people you mention smoked a bit of weed once and suddenly spiralled into self destruction. There has to be more to it than that.

[Dogg Thang]

I was totally buzzing off a coffee this morning. It's that slippery slope.

All substances are not the same. All people who take substances are not the same.

[koopatroopa90]

Do you have many friends?

This made me lol.

[averybluemonkey]

Do you have many friends?

Nice, back to the old schoolyard favourite.

[averybluemonkey]

The point I'm trying to make is this: averybluemonkey said the state will have to pick up the tab if I am allowed to take drugs. Yet I suspect had I said "I want to be free to eat cake and chocolate and crisps" he wouldn't have responded with a similar comment because he knows not everybody who eats sugary and fatty foods ends up obese and in need of medical treatment. Same with alcohhol, had I said "I wanna be free to drink wine and beer and vodka" he wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that I'd end up an alcoholic in need of medical treatment. But the mention of my desire to do drugs, and the conclusion I'll become a junkie, a criminal, a cost to society, was instantly made.

That wasn't what I was saying. My post was in response to your comment of being in favour of legalisation.

Did I say all drug users were criminals? No.

(A) Did I say the majority of burglers were drug users? Yes.

Big difference there. Now moving forward:

(B) Do addicts cost the NHS a lot of money? Yes.

Will a move to decriminialisation result in more people trying these drugs? Yes.

Is it possible to determine in advance whether someone will become an addict? No.

Therefore will a move to decriminilisation result in more addicts? Yes.

Given (A) and (B) above will this result in an increased burden on already massively overstretched resources of the public services? Yes.

Do I particularly want to see even more junkies threatening my girlfriend with violence when she goes to work? No.

It's great for you, things like decriminilisation may appease your wants and desires but you have to look at the bigger picture, the overall cost to society in order for you to have that bit of extra freedom. The fact is any move to decriminisation will result in more crime and violence. No high is worth even a single person's life. You focus on what society bans you from doing but are ignoring all the benefits you gain from it. Society is a compromise, we gain some things and we lose others. You can sit there talking your "deep" insights you've had in your home while passively high all well and good. But there's another side to drugs and it's not a nice one, any move towards decriminilisation will result in that side flourishing too.

[averybluemonkey]

Regarding the banning the booze and cigarettes debate, that simply wouldn't be possible as the train has already left the station.

But does that mean just because it's too late for those two substances that we should give up from trying to protect society from other potentially harmful drugs? Of course not.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

I think that if we're gonna have booze & cigs in plentiful legal supply, then you might aswell legalise cannabis. Dont get me wrong, I've never taken any drugs in my life & I hate the smell of cannabis, but from my experience on the outside while others are high they are no trouble at all.
From what I've read & been told from friends who have visited Amsterdam it is the most chilled crime free area they've ever seen, & its only when idiots that are boozed up from the UK hit their streets that trouble seems to arise.
Alcohol turns ppl into pricks from my experience

[Charlie]

All substances are not the same. All people who take substances are not the same.

Quoted for truth.

That wasn't what I was saying. My post was in response to your comment of being in favour of legalisation.

Did I say all drug users were criminals? No.

(A) Did I say the majority of burglers were drug users? Yes.

Big difference there. Now moving forward:

(B) Do addicts cost the NHS a lot of money? Yes.

Will a move to decriminialisation result in more people trying these drugs? Yes.

Is it possible to determine in advance whether someone will become an addict? No.

Therefore will a move to decriminilisation result in more addicts? Yes.

Given (A) and (B) above will this result in an increased burden on already massively overstretched resources of the public services? Yes.

Do I particularly want to see even more junkies threatening my girlfriend with violence when she goes to work? No.

It's great for you, things like decriminilisation may appease your wants and desires but you have to look at the bigger picture, the overall cost to society in order for you to have that bit of extra freedom. The fact is any move to decriminisation will result in more crime and violence. No high is worth even a single person's life. You focus on what society bans you from doing but are ignoring all the benefits you gain from it. Society is a compromise, we gain some things and we lose others. You can sit there talking your "deep" insights you've had in your home while passively high all well and good. But there's another side to drugs and it's not a nice one, any move towards decriminilisation will result in that side flourishing too.

Cheers for clarifying your position. You make some valid points but I don't ignore the benefits society affords me. I sleep safe and sound in my bed each night thanks, largely, to laws and the men and women who uphold said laws. So, no, I ain't completely blind to the virtues of law and order. But I do want more freedom to do what I want with the one thing nature gave me custody of, what other people might do with that freedom doesn't really concern me too much, they might abuse it, sure, I might even end up being a victim of their new freedom, but that's freedom for you. Everything has a price, you gotta take the yin with the yang, the **** with the flowers.

[dataDave]

Nice, back to the old schoolyard favourite.

Maybe that sounded a little harsh, what I'm implying is that he surely must be acquainted with at least one person who partakes in the consumption of narcotics.

[dataDave]

I think that if we're gonna have booze & cigs in plentiful legal supply, then you might aswell legalise cannabis. Dont get me wrong, I've never taken any drugs in my life & I hate the smell of cannabis, but from my experience on the outside while others are high they are no trouble at all.
From what I've read & been told from friends who have visited Amsterdam it is the most chilled crime free area they've ever seen, & its only when idiots that are boozed up from the UK hit their streets that trouble seems to arise.
Alcohol turns ppl into pricks from my experience

Amsterdam is bliss. It could be doing with a bit of a clean up in certain areas but I think they do a very good job of that. Even the cops are sound, infact, Amsterdam police officers are amongst the nicest and most courteous people I've ever met - and yes, I did have a run in with them one night because of a mate who was absolutely billy bonko (pissed up).

If you want to open your mind to easily the most creative, artistic, and multi-cultured atmosphere I've ever experienced (without even taking anything at all) just walk around that place for a couple of days - it's like being in a Monkey Island game.

[JazzFunk]

^Damn right. Maybe a little scary around the edges, but it's like a good version of Mos Eisley.

To add my tuppence's worth, I was pretty sad that Amy died, she was a quality chart artist, plus 'Back To Black' is a lovely album (that clarifies how talented she was).

It *seemed* inevitable that she'd peg it in the end, but then tabloid reportage often blows stuff like this out of proportion in order to generate easy, salacious stories. So to that end, I was kind of shocked by her passing, never knew how deep the drugs problem truly was, them tabloid reports were REAL, for once.

[Stoppy2000]

As I'm in Amsterdam this weekend anyone got any recommendations on places I should visit whilst there?

[Neon Ignition]

The trouble with Amsterdam is that it's a also a cultural thing, you couldn't emulate that situation here after legalising drugs simply because we have such a chavtastic nob filled population where trouble often brews without any drugs or alcohol involved. Some countries have relaxed laws in all sorts of things but don't translate to workable systems here. Plus, if it were legal here your holidays to Amsterdam would be much less enjoyable

[dataDave]

As I'm in Amsterdam this weekend anyone got any recommendations on places I should visit whilst there?

All museums, including the Heineken one.
RLD.

Grey Area
De Dampkring

Stay away from Grasshopper.