The Car Thread

[Chunky]

Diesel cars are so much better than they used to be, but it is surprisng how many people are still stuck in the stone age with their perception of them.

My comments based on performance weren't aimed at it being a diesel car, i would have been equally surprised if it were petrol. My surprise is more that the Vectra is a brute of a car, yet with only a 1.9 engine it picks up pace very very quickly.

[VR46]

Just realised we've certainly benefited from the car tax stucture change. Wife's 1.4 Peugeot 206 Diesel is now only thirty five quid a year to tax. Result, and quite a nice drop from just over a hundred

[Richard.John]

Lucky you. Now go and produce a ton of C02 to piss of the tree huggers.

[Richard.John]

Just watched TG Australia. Weird to see TG without Jezza, Captain Slow and Hamster.

[Alastair]

Is it any good RJ? And is it on the final gear site?

Mr Holliss, that's a ridiculously low amount of tax to be paying. I'm jealous. RJ has made me think though, if you were to do 12000-15000 miles in that car it'd be producing a lot more carbon than a Ferrari owner who's only doing say 1500 miles a year max but still having to pay 400-500 quid, seems a tad unfair.

[oracle]

Europe is being dieselised by the big oil companies. Diesel is cheaper to produce and is sold at a higher price than petrol.

I was also in Italy last month and the price of benzina over there is scary. No wonder there are so many scooters and Smart cars in the city centres over there.

Um no, Diesel is an by product of the petrol producing process, however its not cheaper to produce as there is high demand from europe for diesel and very few diesel refineries which drives up the price.

[VR46]

When does fair ever come in to consideration where the Government/Tax is concerned Al ?

Our car comes in at 117 co2 (?) emissions per whatever, just falling under the 120 limit to the next price bracket. Result.

TG Australia, didn't like it myself.

[Richard.John]

Is it any good RJ? And is it on the final gear site?

Mr Holliss, that's a ridiculously low amount of tax to be paying. I'm jealous. RJ has made me think though, if you were to do 12000-15000 miles in that car it'd be producing a lot more carbon than a Ferrari owner who's only doing say 1500 miles a year max but still having to pay 400-500 quid, seems a tad unfair.

It's an exact copy just without our beloved trio. Spooky and yes its on Final Gear.

The tax thing is silly as it highlights the flawed logic as you suggest. It's not how polluting your car is standing still but how many miles you put in I reckon.

[VR46]

We already have the astronomical tax on petrol to punish you for whatever mileage you do Richard.

[Alastair]

Exactly. We get a mileage tax that actually reflects how much you pollute and then a road wear and tear tax that isn't calculated by how much wear and tear you cause on the roads but on how much 'potential' damage you do to the environment.

I wouldn't mind so much if the road tax was actually spent on roads but they are in such a sorry state in this country it's just not funny. David knows all about my love of pot holes!

[Richard.John]

We have outrageous road tolls here. I say that in the sense that once the construction costs have been paid off, they should be free but no government is going to drop a tax, which is what it is.

It's more expensive to travel to Nagoya by car and back if you include tolls and fuel, than by bullet train. That's silly in my view.

[CMcK]

Um no, Diesel is an by product of the petrol producing process, however its not cheaper to produce as there is high demand from europe for diesel and very few diesel refineries which drives up the price.

Both diesel and petrol are made from blending the products of crude oil fractionation. I wouldn't describe diesel as a by product of petrol.

At the refinery units I work on we make the components which are used in the blends for petrol and diesel. There is more of the heavier (less valuable) components from the fractionation process used in the diesel blends so it should be cheaper to make.
The further refinement of light ends (catalytic reforming), sulphur removal and benzene removal also contributes to the higher production costs for petrol. Benzene was used to improve the octane rating of petrol and the tighter controls on benzene content in petrol mean more higher RON material has to be used in petrol blends.

It's true that in mainland Europe there is a bit of a shortage of diesel production capacity and we do export to the mainland. A lot of the problems with diesel production shortages are probably related to the production of low sulphur content ULSD which requires additional plants to be built to remove sulphur.

[Richard.John]

The 370Z is coming. I drove a 350Z Roadster recently and it was great in a muscle car kind of way. The new one is even more Porker though, but seems to have some GTR DNA.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Nissan-Concepts/235325/

[Alastair]

It looks almost exactly the same but with a Porsche angled screen, odd. I was expecting a totally new style to be honest.

[Richard.John]

A powerful brute though. I wonder what the pricing will be? Same as the outgoing probably.