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**Dogg Thang** · 06-05-2011, 20:34

Howiee, you should sell that as a tagline for churches. Have to say, I always enjoy your take on everything. You're always an interesting read and your thoughts often show you've taken the 'blind' out of 'blind faith'.

**Charlie** · 06-05-2011, 20:39

Right about the Wii, huh? Then the Christian God must exist!

I didn't realise there were three Christian heavens but that's interesting, especially that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have, what I presume, is their own heaven. I've been dipping in and out of the Bible (King James version) recently but, I won't lie, I find it heavy going, especially as an agnostic. No worries about rambling, it's fascinating learning about peoples beliefs as their beliefs shape their principles and their principles shape their actions and it's actions that have shaped the world we find ourselves in, so I don't find religion as abstract, without application or as pointless as some non-believers/non-deciders do.

**Howiee** · 06-05-2011, 22:28

Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post

Howiee, you should sell that as a tagline for churches. Have to say, I always enjoy your take on everything. You're always an interesting read and your thoughts often show you've taken the 'blind' out of 'blind faith'.

Hey, Dogg Thang. Thanks for the kind words. I enjoy your posts too, and the touch of wry reason they bring to the most mental of threads. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that! I'm gonna make an active effort from now on to be more active on other threads, lest you all think I only turn up for the existential debates!

Originally posted by Charlie View Post

Right about the Wii, huh? Then the Christian God must exist!

I didn't realise there were three Christian heavens but that's interesting, especially that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have, what I presume, is their own heaven. I've been dipping in and out of the Bible (King James version) recently but, I won't lie, I find it heavy going, especially as an agnostic. No worries about rambling, it's fascinating learning about peoples beliefs as their beliefs shape their principles and their principles shape their actions and it's actions that have shaped the world we find ourselves in, so I don't find religion as abstract, without application or as pointless as some non-believers/non-deciders do.

Truth be told, it was interesting for me too, even as I was researching an answer for you! There are some things in the bible - heaven, the virgin birth, the trinity etc. - that I can't explain, which is why discussions like this are a good excuse to do some research (for me, anyway!).

Aye, reading the King James, although probably the most textually accurate translation, can be like eating flour at times. You would do well to pick up a copy with accompanying study notes by a reputable, non-telly evangelist theologian. I recommend John McArthur. Failing that, I'd be happy to help explain anything you find contentious or weird. Feel free to drop me a PM.

You're spot on about beliefs shaping principles. Beliefs have consequences. The thing that bothers me most about the popularisers of New Atheism (Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Singer etc.) is that none of them win me over as human beings (especially Singer). That said, I accept that personal conduct is no reflection on, nor should it be, the quality of a person's argument, but it was in the nuance of personality that Jesus interacted with people, which was one of the reasons why I changed my thinking about Christianity and why a person's beliefs are important to me. If that makes sense.

**randombs** · 06-05-2011, 23:41

You guys are all bonkers. Islam's easily the scariest of all the religions. I defy anyone to tell me their religion is more frightening to not be a part of.

**Ady** · 07-05-2011, 10:34

Originally posted by Charlie View Post

I didn't realise there were three Christian heavens but that's interesting, especially that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost have, what I presume, is their own heaven. I've been dipping in and out of the Bible (King James version) recently but, I won't lie, I find it heavy going, especially as an agnostic.

You're in for a treat later.

There's tales about talking snakes, talking donkeys, a guy who offers his own daughters to a mob of rapists in place of his angelic guests, another guy who sacrifices his own daughter to god in exchange for god allowing him to win a battle, a brother who tricks and then rapes his own sister, and of course this lovely tale involving children.

And people actually believe this stuff is true, and the god concerned loving and kind.

**Howiee** · 07-05-2011, 11:43

Hi Ady,

Can I ask what it is exactly that you're critiquing? In order for your critique to be valid, so must the source material, which you believe, so absolutely, is not.

Withe respect, you might as well have written that rant about The Three Little Pigs and that awful wolf for all the academic weight it holds.

**mekanor** · 07-05-2011, 11:59

I'm with you all the way howiee but these sorts of discussions don't ever end well. It's a testament to ntsc-uk that this one hasn't dissolved into a mess of insults and accusations already.

**bash** · 07-05-2011, 12:50

Originally posted by billy_dimashq View Post

You guys are all bonkers. Islam's easily the scariest of all the religions. I defy anyone to tell me their religion is more frightening to not be a part of.

Eh? What is it about Islam above all other religions you find so scary?

**Ady** · 07-05-2011, 13:36

Originally posted by Howiee View Post

Hi Ady,

Can I ask what it is exactly that you're critiquing? In order for your critique to be valid, so must the source material, which you believe, so absolutely, is not.

Withe respect, you might as well have written that rant about The Three Little Pigs and that awful wolf for all the academic weight it holds.

Eh?? All of the aforementioned stories are in the bible. What's not to get?

**Adrock** · 07-05-2011, 13:36

I'm not so sure Islam is that scary at all. Judaism is a scarier religion.

**EDDIE M0NS00N** · 07-05-2011, 15:44

hey hey now come ppl lets get this thread back on track with some USA/Pakistan/Muslim/Osama/Obama hating

**'Press Start'** · 07-05-2011, 17:00

It's been a good discussion about religion and the alternative views.

Some light reading that fuses religion, mystery schools, science, geometry, ancient philosophy, music, art, secret societies and more into one very fine place.

Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Teachings-Ages-Manly-Hall/dp/1585422509/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1304786975&sr=8-2

and this

Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hermetica-Lost-Wisdom-Pharaohs/dp/158542692X/ref=pd_rhf_shvl_1

I'm staying well out the Judaism/Muslim debate *runs for cover*

**Charlie** · 07-05-2011, 17:12

With regards to scary religions, I'm more inclined to believe it's a minority of the people who practise them that are scary, not the core texts or messages contained in those texts.

**Dogg Thang** · 07-05-2011, 17:31

Hmmm... that depends on what is actually written in those texts. When you get down to it, there are more than a few scary passages here and there that give that minority more than enough fuel and validation.

**toythatkills** · 07-05-2011, 17:35

They've released bin Laden's home movies. It's no "reader's wives."

In another of the videos, Bin Laden is shown watching a programme about himself on Arabic language television.

As he watches TV he strokes his beard...

Are you watching, Hollywood?

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