Keep Fit Club - ALL exercise types!

[Terry Tibbs]

So dudes, can we talk about Vibram FiveFingers...

I'm up for a bit of experimentation (that's what she said!), and fancy trying out some barefoot shoes. There seem to be loads of different styles, with a range of prices to match. Not sure where to begin. I did look at these, but no idea if they cut the mustard:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vibram-Fivefingers-Fitness-Shoes-Black/dp/B00BCO83AM/ref=sr_1_1?s=shoes&ie=UTF8&qid=1431027796&sr=1-1&keywords=Vibram+FiveFingers

[charlesr]

Do yourself a favour and get in touch with these guys: http://www.feetus.co.uk/
Lee will give you some proper advice on which pair to get.
They are categorised into sole types mainly, so tell him what you want to use them for and he will help you choose. Tell him I sent you.
He will also sort you out with Injini socks of the right weight.

I ran in these this morning: http://gearselected.com/vibram-fivef...-5finger-shoe/

But what do you want them for?
Did you already tell us if you run forefoot or not? If you don't then be prepared for a super long transition and then buying lots of low drop racing flats to replace all your current trainers with heels

While you are deciding, can I recommend you do 3 things:
1) Google for "100ups" and practice those
2) Go out for a barefoot run on a hard surface. No more than 500m. Use the same technique as the 100up. Watch the vid below too.
3) Google for "eccentric heel raise / dip" (it's the slow lowering motion on one foot that is important). Do these every day.

And watch this:


Do those and you might avoid hurting yourself.

[Terry Tibbs]

Thanks Charles. Before I get in touch with your contact Lee, I need to figure out an answer to the question of why.

I *believe* I strike mid/forefoot, but I have not had this confirmed. Quite difficult to self monitor! Despite some issues last year with hams, and a 12 week ankle niggle (physio tried to convince me there was a biomechanical drive, but it passed of its own accord without my having to change footwear, form, or training -- my belief was it was a mild sprain, which they did admit was also possible), I have managed to keep injury free for the last 5-6 months. I do lots of focused ham stretches now, and a bit of foam rollering, but no 100ups or eccentric heel raises, although I'm aware of what they are, and would happily introduce them if it helped me attain my goals. So onto those...

In order:
1. become a faster runner over shorter distances (i.e. be able to sustain a sub 4min/km pace for 5k and eventually 10k races).
2. introduce more variety into my training regime, but ultimately have a repeating weekly schedule. I need the structure.
3. improve my HM time to mid 1:30s.
4. increase my mileage to be able to run 30-40k with no fueling issues. I currently hit an energy 'wall' around 30k during LSRs.

Introducing more variety into my training I'm hoping will facilitate the other goals. Hence, my interest in barefoot/other styles.

Records:
5k: 20:31
10k: 44:11
HM: 1:41:36

Current routine (as of the last 2 months):
Tue: Intervals/hard short session
Thur: Approx. 1 hour steady/hard (for me, about 4:40/km, which I could not hold for much more than an hour).
Sat: Parkrun (LT run, freestyle, or all out).
Sun: LSR (16-20k). Easy pace, keeping HR to 140bpm tops. My max HR is 193bpm, I believe.

NB: this approach is definitely bringing improvements of the kind I'm after. I don't know if it's therefore just a case of being patient. I don't want to risk injury, so I would be very careful with any barefoot runs. I've done over 1000 km in viratta 2s, but now reserve those for shorter faster runs, and use Brooks Purecadence 3s (4mm drop) for all longer training runs.

[charlesr]

Go for a barefoot run - you'll immediately know if you land forefoot or not

I'll comment a bit more later. Have to do some work.

[charlesr]

"increase my mileage to be able to run 30-40k with no fueling issues. I currently hit an energy 'wall' around 30k during LSRs"

I wouldn't worry about this too much. It's a time thing, not a distance thing. As you get quicker, you'll go further in the same amount of time. For me it's about 3h20m of slow running and then my pace drops off fast for a set HR (unless I fuel along the way). In a race at faster speeds, it's a similar amount of time, so need to fuel as I go.

[Terry Tibbs]

OK, that's reassuring to know. It's amazing how suddenly energy resources can become depleted. I phoned my missus around the 20k mark once, to tell her I still felt strong so I might be a while longer on my LSR. 5k later I hobbled to the nearest bus stop!

So, the big question is, given all of the above, should I get a pair of Vibrams?

[charlesr]

Of course you should get some Vibrams. But they won't make you faster.
And you'll need to add an extra Vibram day into your schedule otherwise you'll have to suffer reduced mileage while you do really short runs during transition - even if you forefoot at the moment, you'll still need to adjust to having zero cushion and landing softly enough with fast cadence, lifting off the ground rather than pushing.

Also remember the vivobarefoot option. Especially the ONE. Similar to vibrams but without the toe thing.

[Terry Tibbs]

Of course you should get some Vibrams .

That's what I wanted to hear. :P

Yep, my plan was to introduce Wednesdays (currently a rest day), to go to a nearby field and do some really gentle barefoot sessions.

Right, so I just need to get my feet measured up, and start picking through the options.

Is there any advantage to having the toes as opposed to something like the vivobarefoot? I guess you have more a more natural independence of movement with the big toe, for balance and whatnot.

[Terry Tibbs]

Would you say I'm on the right path to getting quicker, or is there anything else I should introduce? I guess I'm typically doing 40-45km a week.

[charlesr]

Vivobarefoot is less complex so last a bit longer (no material to rub in between the toes), but otherwise not a lot in it. Can use normal socks in Vivobarefoot.

Here's my review of the Vivobarefoot ONE.

[charlesr]

Looks good, you need to keep pushing those long runs. I'd also suggest doing fast sections in the long runs every 2 or 3 weeks. EG 10k slow 5k threshold 10k slow, and mixing in some days with 1k intervals during perhaps a 15k (start with just 1 interval and build for safety)

[Taka]

Terry, why specifically Vibrams? Why not just some minimalist shoes like the Nike Free 3.0 or 4.0 etc?

A buddy of mine benched himself, which he believes was down to his Vibrams. I used to see them at quite a few races, big and small, but I don't think I've seen a pair in public this year.

[charlesr]

Nike 3 or 4 are not minimal in my book Wave Universe is minimal. People bench themselves by doing too much in Vibrams too quickly after years of running in high heels. Took me 2 years. I came 2nd in my local 5 miler trail run in Vibrams. Wouldn't have gone any quicker in normal shoes.

Also Terry, do not learn barefoot in a field. It must be on a concrete or tarmac or other hard surface. Grass will teach you some really bad habits

[Terry Tibbs]

Thanks for the tips guys. Like I said, I'm definitely seeing improvements just from the four sessions I've been doing each week. One of them is hard, two moderately hard, and one long and easy. I'm just a bit impatient as I really want to hit that sub 20 on the 5k. I probably shouldn't wish for it too soon, as I'll just be onto another, tougher goal after that. It has taken me a year to get from 21:57 to 20:31. I work really hard (and sensibly) at it, and I still class myself as untalented when it comes to this hobby. I try to take on board advice from many runners way better than myself, but people have different ideas about what brings results rapidly and effectively (and safely).

Anyway, I'll try adding in some faster sections to my LSR every now and then. In fact I do do this already from time to time, just to spice it up when things get a bit boring. [emoji2]

Is 16-20k sufficient for my long run or am I likely to see speed improvements if I start extending this more frequently to 25-30k?

Aaaaand shoes...

If you say they won't help with my running speed or endurance then there's not much point in forcing a transition to barefootwear. I'm just looking for something to assist, and I thought adding this kind of variation might help. I have no preference for any minimal shoe model, so recommendations are welcome if you think it's worth it.

[Taka]

Nike 3 or 4 are not minimal in my book Wave Universe is minimal. People bench themselves by doing too much in Vibrams too quickly after years of running in high heels. Took me 2 years. I came 2nd in my local 5 miler trail run in Vibrams. Wouldn't have gone any quicker in normal shoes.

Also Terry, do not learn barefoot in a field. It must be on a concrete or tarmac or other hard surface. Grass will teach you some really bad habits

I did think my friend had done too much in them, but then everybody's different and sometimes you only know your limits when you reach them...

Just my view, but I don't think it's necessary to go all the way to Vibrams to learn how to improve technique.