The Relationship Thread II: Lost in that Last Goodbye

[randombs]

No public service staff (banks, post office, etc.) has ever been this chatty, or friendly, calling me by my first name, or waving me over to her work station. In the space of a week she was behaving like an old long time friend. I'm not even that friendly to my actual real life friends.

Here's my recipe for 100% success with women in everyday life:

When I think a woman is flirting with me, I assume she's just being friendly.

She could be fluttering her eyelashes, twiddling her hair round her fingers, brushing my arm, caressing my balls, or any of the 'Ten signs she's DEFINITELY wants you inside of her RIGHT NOW' that magazines like Men's Health often list.

Regarding the bank situation, asking the woman out wasn't sexual harassment. You weren't the first to ask her out, and you weren't the last. You misread the situation. It happens. You definitely didn't move on. By moving on, DT meant going back to the bank as if nothing had happened. You had your brother pretend to be you. That's not moving on.

However, you need to understand that the way in which you dealt with - and later dissected - that interaction is concerning. And that's putting it mildly.

As for women in general, you're trying too hard to work them out, to solve them like an equation. Don't do that. Stop trying to be what you think they want you to be. Be yourself and be patient. Don't become a Jew, ffs. Life isn't a Calypso and you're not offering yourself as a sacrifice to Mel Gibson. Mind you, Mel Gibson knows what women want. He even made a documentary about it. So there are worse methods, I guess.

If you want to ask women out, you need to think like a telemarketer. Make contact; try some lines; abort mission if going nowhere; rinse and repeat. That's probably why Dan got annoyed at you listing his failures. He doesn't stop to ponder what went wrong. He just keeps going until he hits the jackpot. And, given the odds, that's bound to happen at some point. It's like the monthly KPIs I had to hit as a recruiter. Stop to dwell on the failures and they'll hang over you.

Also, take women down off that pedestal. Women are just women. There are good ones and bad ones. You've been unlucky, sure. But you're like the guy who's bought three 360s in a row with the red ring of death. "I'm done with Micro$haft! I'm buying a PS3!", he cries. But those of us who had one or less 360s with the red ring of death say "Your experience is just an anomaly!". His fourth 360 may have been the one to last for all eternity but he's already moved to PS3. Speaking of which, have you considered dudes? You might have better luck and much fewer guessing games. But go top to avoid your own red ring of death.

Also, if you have Netflix, check out Daniel Sloss' standup show called Jigsaw. He shares many of your fears. It might put things in perspective for you.

[Neon Ignition]

I can't emphasise enough how much I wanted to click onto the next page of posts in this thread and there be a third lengthy post from Sketcz.


There's so, so much to crunch there and I think the only thing I could possibly say here is:

1-Change: A chunk of one post revolves around the extent of changing yourself to fit the person you're with and the only thing I can say is that's a complete no go. Whilst there's a degree of working with your other half, growing together, picking up traits and getting used to things you initially find grating with each other you still have to remain true to yourself. Anything other than that and they're falling for a persona your portraying and the second that façade cracks the relationship will fall apart every time.

2-Rejection: It doesn't sound like you have that much of a confidence issue asking someone out, it's any rejection that's the issue, probably the most common concern for single folk. I was equally anxious of not just being turned down but also asking and even if I got a yes the dating - I never found dating fun at all, either single or in a relationship. To approach dating not caring about rejection would probably transform the experience and may be the biggest area to look at in terms of finding a yes and dialling down how you feel if someone says no.

From what you posted about the bank - Who knows if she was just being nice or flirting. Some women are flirty with intent, some without intent, some are just nice and confident, some are doing their job informally, some are offended at being asked out etc. The key important element is just that you asked in a very straight up way and took the polite rejection politely yourself. No harm, no foul. You could definitely have gone back to the bank though.

It's easier said than done but straight up asking 'would you like to meet up sometime?' can do no harm, if anyone takes offense at what can be no more than a compliment from someone they aren't personally interested in then they're a d***

[QualityChimp]

Firstly, you know I'm on your side. I'm backer 101 on TUHoJGD! The sole owner of the Coffee Table Man Anthology!

Secondly, it's really good that you've posted, despite it making yourself a little vulnerable. That's very brave.
Hopefully, you'll get some useful opinions and take the banter in the jovial tone in which it's intended.

I'm going to go through a few points, but the short version is agreement with how you possibly view women and to encourage to stop trying to understand them like there's an algorithm to solve them.

Consider going to a life coach who might help you with this.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/143459-14-ridiculously-helpful-dating-tips-from-life-coaches

I now always glance at the ring finger.

See! You're already learning to read signals! Progress.

I knew it, I am the bad guy!

You've taken me out of context there, I didn't say you were a bad guy, so stop thinking like that, please.
How you handled the situation was wrong, and that's what we're aiming to help you with.

I linked at the start of my post to the Sky News post. I was talking hypothetically. About what if they did introduce new laws, as they are debating do. It's tough enough for shy people to speak to others without these laws. Once the laws are in place, why even bother. The fear will be compounded. You will always wonder, am I going to be judged?!

Obviously, Sky News, so take it with a pinch of salt, but even that article is quite clear:
"A government spokesperson said: "Unwelcome advances that intimidate, degrade or humiliate women and girls are an abuse of power and unlawful. Whether in the home, the workplace or in public, sexual harassment is unacceptable. The government has made protecting women and girls from all forms of violence, and supporting victims and survivors a key priority.""

Dude, I left the bank and never returned for 8 months. How much more moving on do I need to do?

That's not moving on, that's avoiding the issue so that you don't have to deal with it.
You should have gone back into the bank and she'd have either carried on speaking to you or got somebody else to deal with your custom.
Either way, just asking her politely for a coffee shouldn't "intimidate, degrade or humiliate" her.

It's already started. I personally feel under attack, and all I did was ask a woman in a bank if she wanted a drink, back in 2007.
My entire post was based on the anxiety caused by feeling as if I'm being labelled as a bad guy for doing nothing wrong. Both of you have confirmed my feelings as having been accurate. I am the one at fault in all of this; the bad guy; the societal villain; the moral deviant; the societal menace.

We're not trying to personally attack you or say you're the bad guy, again, please stop thinking like this.
Misunderstanding your relationship with the bank clerk was an honest mistake that has been made throughout the ages.
Laugh about it with her, apologise and understand that your relationship has altered and continue speaking to her, but be polite.

Also stop thinking that asking somebody out is going to outlawed like some thought crime.
If you're polite and non-threatening and can cope with being told no in a sensible manner, you'll be fine.

My bro-in-law went on loads of Tinder dates until he was in a proper relationship, but his first dates were usually coffees and they agreed for only an hour. This means either of you can leave without awkwardly ending the date and can have a second, longer one if you hit it off. Why not give that a try?

None of us are experts and we're merely expressing an opinion. Some are divorced (Charles is in the middle of his, btw), some are just getting married, some have been married for decades and others are single.
That's the whole point of threads like this. You're not in the same bubble of friends giving you duff information, you're getting a wider breath of experience.

I would definitely try and find somebody to talk to about how to talk to women, because an intelligent and funny jet-setter like yourself deserves to find someone.

[Sketcz]

Thanks QC. I tried to weave in some mild satire to lighten the tone of my posts. I suspect maybe some took everything at face value. The not visiting the bank for 8 months was true - I suppose when you type that, it's then difficult to work out what actually was satire.

Some are divorced (Charles is in the middle of his, btw)

Oh my... Charles, I apologise for the flippancy of my previous post, and am sorry to hear this. Courage going forward.

[randombs]

We're all just canoeists wading through the great pool of womankind trying to stay afloat.

[fishbowlhead]

So just to give a little empathy here to sketcz. I’ve been there mate and done the exact same thing.

Used to go in my local branch to sort business stuff out weekly early on a sat morning, super cute little cashier girl used to insist on serving me every single time without fail, always chatty, always flirty and just generally very interested in talking to just me, I’m in there very week and never saw her like that with any other customer.

So after about 6 months of this we bump into each other on the street, literally, I bumped into her and nocked all her stuff out her hands, so I apologise and pick it all up, hand it all back and low and behold it’s the little cashier cutie. We get chatting and 20 mins later we both realise the time and say we need to get going.

At this point I say, well if you ever fancy a drink and carrying on this conversation your welcome to take my number, now I wasn’t expecting what she said next to be honest. She went, yes I’d love too, my bf won’t be happy but definitely.

At that point I simply said, year, I don’t think so, you stay with your bf, and I walked off. I still went into the branch and she seemed persue me for some time but eventually gave up when I was perfectly abrupt that I was not ok with her having a bf and thinking it was ok to date or see someone else.


Sometimes your not reading the signals wrong sketcz.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I remember many moons ago a very pretty girl used to come and chat to me about video-games etc when I worked in Game. She'd come in on her break just to chat. Sometimes we'd end up on the same bus home and we would talk/flirt. I found out where she worked (in a non-stalker way) and built up the courage to ask her out...at which point she said she had a BF and brushed me off. Very odd behavior for someone in a relationship.

[fishbowlhead]

I remember many moons ago a very pretty girl used to come and chat to me about video-games etc when I worked in Game. She'd come in on her break just to chat. Sometimes we'd end up on the same bus home and we would talk/flirt. I found out where she worked (in a non-stalker way) and built up the courage to ask her out...at which point she said she had a BF and brushed me off. Very odd behavior for someone in a relationship.

Attention seeking is all it is from people that are bored. I’ll ruthlessly destroy anyone that does this now days, disgusting behaviour to toy with others like that.

[Dogg Thang]

Sometimes people (women and men) can enjoy entertaining fantasies they won't act on. Other times, they like options. Sometimes they are just flirty by nature. And sometimes they are just being nice and it comes across as flirty. Sometimes you read the signals all wrong because you want them to be signals or because you make something small into something bigger due to nerves or whatever. There are so many variations of this and it all just comes down to people being people so if you just stay cool and be a nice person you'll be okay. There will always be frustrations. That's just life.

[Mayhem]

To go along partly with Sketcz, FishBowl and Cassius posts, been there, done there regarding being flirted at persistently and then finding out she's already in a relationship when I decide to do something about it. Was not too impressed to say the least.

Truly these relationship threads have had it all: people shacking up after 2 weeks, the chap who got all indignant about whipping out a Pizza Hut voucher on a first date, and now this. Coincidentally, it was only recently that I learned what an incel is.

How about expecting a kid and you're not actually living with your other half yet...?!

[JazzFunk]

Woooooooowww. Mad Flava up in this piece.

JazzFunk verdict?

Long Live The New Flesh

[Jaz]

To go along partly with Sketcz, FishBowl and Cassius posts, been there, done there regarding being flirted at persistently and then finding out she's already in a relationship when I decide to do something about it. Was not too impressed to say the least.


How about expecting a kid and you're not actually living with your other half yet...?!

Always plastic wrap your sandwiches people.

[prinnysquad]

I had no idea that this thread had been so busy recently. Bankotrons, Flirtomaxes, WADachus and Humilisprouts - it’s a veritable Pokédex of hangups and issues.


I do sympathise with some of what was said. I found anything to do with approaching a woman, asking them out, the potential for humiliation, etc, all ridiculously difficult. To the point where I just didn’t bother. I also tried to hide/dilute interests or traits that I worried were unattractive.


In the event, I entered a relationship totally out of the blue. I met someone at work, just pottering around normally. I changed nothing fundamental about myself. I made compromising tweaks here and there, but that was it. If a person is going to fall for you, then they have to fall for you ‘warts and all’. I hid none of my gittishness.


Changing yourself too much never works. You can’t live a fundamental lie for your entire life. Eventually, cracks begin to show. Devotion can be expressed in the way you support your partner, the way you respect them, the manner in which you behave towards them. No way would I ever lose sight of who I am in order to falsely appease another. Many people don’t like or respect others who are too eager to be walked over. They see it as weak and deceitful. A balance needs to be found between compromising and being genuine.


The main revelation of this thread is that Dogg has an ignore list. WAD you believe it?

[Dogg Thang]

THAT'S NOT A WORD, PRINNY!

[fishbowlhead]

Oh and guys, FYI, NEVER data a girl that works at the bank, they absolutely do look at your accounts and make mental notes on who’s got what and what they spend it on, then proceed to gossip endlessly about it with one another.

I dated another girl from a different bank who persued me, I went in there for something trivial one day and she recognised my surname, our fathers did business for years together and we got chatting for a good hour, gave me her number and we went out a few times. Anyway she got drunk one night and confirmed all this to me and I called it there and then, I didn’t find the staff attitude or hers to people’s personal information the least bit professional.

Which was a bit of a shame as were were extremely compatible and she had a rocking body.

Oh well, morals and all that.