Is "nationality" becoming outdated?

[gunrock]

Colin, thanks for your thought-provoking response. I don't mind that you don't feel British or identify yourself that way as like I say you had no say in whether you were born in "Britain" or not, so what's to get attached to?

My only other question is, surely the values instilled in you are those of your parents? Whilst local community and culture can colour or shape those, are you saying there is a mono-cultural set of values that Scotland instills in all of it's children? Even where I live there's a disparate set of family values that I see being put into children's heads (either by instruction/punitive measures or by osmosis), such as those who think it's okay to wear pyjama's on the school run (hence teenage girls pop to Tesco Express in their jimjams and Ugg boots ) or that football shirts are acceptable at any occasion, to those who believe that good manners and courtesy are important, as well as those who go to church every Sunday and yet sneer down their noses at their neighbours and flaunt their wealth.
Anyway, don't take me the wrong way Colin, I'd like to think that we'll still be "brothers, of sorts" even when Scotland is independent, even if only through a shared love of video games!

[Kieran76]

Agree with you again Colin, I have never felt British in my life. I hate the fact that I cannot call myself English on forms. I, like many people from Yorkshire see themselves as Yorkshire first, English second. I love the differences in this country. We are a tiny place yet differ som much region to region. That is one of the reasons we are so ace.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

Britain has had its hand in a fair share of atrocities over the years, and still does to this day. Don't think for a second because you are 'British', you are in some way better than everyone else. Our hands are as dirty as any other country in the world. That's a pretty arrogant and isolationist way of looking at it, which is half the issue with 'lines on the map'. It separates people and makes them arrogant and ignorant of the world around them.

I think that there is the problem isn't it. People seem to assume that being as we live in the UK that we are all a bunch of stereotypical racist, smug, arrogant idiots when the truth is the complete opposite within the majority. And who have I heard this from in the past? - people who are not British judging the British people as being all the same based on a few news stories or a small part of the population.

I wonder has the pressure of others convinced the British or English of being ashamed of themselves based on past historic events around the World that we had no connection to?

Yes as the 'UK' we have done great things & terrible things (as have most countries in the World btw) but we cant be blamed for those idiots that did the terrible nor those who are racist or arrogant. They were terrible atrocities we would all agree, & I would hope that all have learned from those past events never to allow them to happen again.
Todays German population aren't considered Nazi's by those sensible enough to understand. Neither should the English/British be stereotyped with being arrogant nor racist based on a few idiots who have given the population a bad name. There are racists within most countries & that has been shown in recent times but we don't base the entire population on those people.


I'll be honest & say that yes I consider myself Welsh before British, but I don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops & can extract the urine out of myself regarding my Nationality. I believe that certain people within Wales, Scotland, Ireland & England need to move on from the past events regarding Englands' past history within the British Isles should be left where it is in the past & we should all just get along with each other, while still maintaining pride in our Nationality.

We should all feel a pride in our Nationality without the need to feel some kind of guilt over those morons that caused others ill in the past

[dvdx2]

Its certainly not outdated here in Ireland.

We have;

Irish
Northern Irish
British
Southern Irish

I'm sure there is probably more too

[Kit]

I think it's now just seen as jovial banter by just about everyone except the muslim community; I base this on my experience living in peterborough (most mixed community in the uk) all my life.

[sj33]

I would suggest that people can't have it both ways, though. People can't claim ownership of a nation's achievements on the one hand, while dismissing any responsibility for the atrocities on the other.

If we're to be consistent, we should recognise that both the nation's achievements and atrocities were done by different people from a different era.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

You can embrace both & still be proud of your Nationality tho surely, rather than the guilt & shame based on the past or based on a minority of bad people?

[originalbadboy]

You can embrace both & still be proud of your Nationality tho surely, rather than the guilt & shame based on the past or based on a minority of bad people?

Its not a minority of bad people though .. I am talking about the sort of atrocities that are kind of hard to forget and were caused by 'Britain' not a set number of people. Slavery is a good example, another is India and Pakistan.

The point was that you cannot seperate and use 'Britain' as an identity to try and distance ourselves from other countries that we think are 'bad'. In the end we were and still as bad in our own way as every other country on Earth.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

Its not a minority of bad people though .. I am talking about the sort of atrocities that are kind of hard to forget and were caused by 'Britain' not a set number of people. Slavery is a good example, another is India and Pakistan.

The point was that you cannot seperate and use 'Britain' as an identity to try and distance ourselves from other countries that we think are 'bad'. In the end we were and still as bad in our own way as every other country on Earth.

Again I haven't ever said, nor would i ever say anything about the UK being better than anyone else in the world, nor am I separating the UKs attrocities as being not as bad as any other countries. We need to remember the past & learn from it. Lets not forget that as the UK & here in Wales slavery was rife in many forms. The Welsh even using their own as slaves. I don't hold a grudge against those within my own country who controlled those events.
Slavery was rife across the globe but i don't see ours as being slightly gentler than other countries.

Just because the BNP & others within this country (& even in Wales btw) who want to desperately prove that this country is better than others with their arrogance doesn't mean that we all think like that. Again its a negative stereotypical view from outsiders who haven't seen the full picture. Its the same as idiots within the UK with their "Muslims - they're all the bloody same!" attitude.

But it seems as tho us 'Brits' are stereotypically so polite that we are willing to be bullied into being ashamed of being British these days.

And to answer the main titles question: no i don't believe that nationalism is outdated & it should remain

[Dogg Thang]

Seems like the pride and shame should come as a package - I am proud of the the arbitrary geographical borders I by chance happened to be born inside because of the achievements of those who also once happened to be within those same borders, but I am also shamed by the actions of those who did terrible things while within the borders or acting in the name of said borders. That sort of thing.

[charlesr]

Went shopping today and the only place in town that had a union jack tshirt (and I looked everywhere) was H&M. Plenty of San Fransisco and LA and Tokyo tshirts though!

[danstan21]

Nationalism is a dirty word; no longer fashionable. Perhaps those of us who feel it ought to be should start a new movement: the Fashionably Nationalists. Or Fashists for short.

In seriousness, I feel like I'm a bit of a contradiction when it comes to a sense of national identity. I sneer at the man who flies a Union Flag in my village and consider a British national identity a nonsense, and yet greatly laud and admire the national identity of other countries, and love to immerse myself in other cultures and traditions. I have yet to reconcile these two points of view in my mind.

[Lyris]

Is "nationality" becoming outdated?

I sure hope so. I have no affiliation with the "nationality" I was prescribed by government, and now they're even discussing changing it to something I have even less affiliation with (in fact, actual contempt for).

It's bunk.

[smouty]

I sneer at the man who flies a Union Flag in my village and consider a British national identity a nonsense

I guess you sneer at him as he and others like him have taken this country's flag and used as a symbol of white supremacy or another racist party?
Hi could just possibly be a proud citizen e.g. ex-military.

The UJ needs to be reclaimed as a symbol of unity.

[EDDIE M0NS00N]

I guess you sneer at him as he and others like him have taken this country's flag and used as a symbol of white supremacy or another racist party?
Hi could just possibly be a proud citizen e.g. ex-military.

The UJ needs to be reclaimed as a symbol of unity.

This was what my previous comments were about. If u class yourself as British then even other Brits aswell as those outside the UK seem to have been convinced that the flag now symbolises racism, all because a minority of people, sorry i mean idiots, are using the flag for their ill means