Paris

[Dirty Sanchez]

Yeah, because those odds are so high it just MUST be god. That possibly couldn't be more unlikely could it.

The sheer dishonesty of religion not just fessing up and saying you know what, we just don't know stands out to me.

[dvdx2]

Tombs generally don't have fire escape exits.

lol - what i meant was, could the body been removed via another exit. Many tombs have interconnecting secret passages (look at the pyramids). I know absolutely nothing about it, but i assume he was popular enough that people to want to remove the body , before it got into other hands. Its physically impossible for a body to vanish, unless removed.

[Howiee]

Yeah, because those odds are so high it just MUST be god. That possibly couldn't be more unlikely could it.

The sheer dishonesty of religion not just fessing up and saying you know what, we just don't know stands out to me.

Nowhere did I say it MUST be God. I'm expressing an opinion, based on the evidence that we all have access to, that 'God' is a reasonable position to hold. I'm sorry if you think that's dishonest.

[Dogg Thang]

I read a book decades ago that was 5 or 6 or 7 ways that Jesus could have made it out of that tomb, written by a historian. Only one of them was a resurrection. I honestly can't remember most of them but they went through the words in detail looking for clues. One thing I remember is that there is no mention of breaking his arms and apparently breaking the arms was standard in crucifixion around that time. There were a few other things combined with that that meant he would have been stronger and in better condition than a typical victim of crucifixion. So he may not have been dead.

[dvdx2]

Yeah, I really liked Hitchens too. He seemed like you could have a pint and bit of banter with him. He definitely made me think the most out of all the New Atheists.

I agree with you on the duck. There are certainly other explanations. I suppose it's the statistical odds of basic lifeforms happening at all that get me (I think it's officially something like less than 1 in a million trillion x 20 more trillions), never mind complex human beings with senses of humour and eyeballs and such.

out of curiosity, what do you think the statistical odds of a god creating life/universe would be?

[Dirty Sanchez]

Nowhere did I say it MUST be God. I'm expressing an opinion, based on the evidence that we all have access to, that 'God' is a reasonable position to hold. I'm sorry if you think that's dishonest.

The evidence is you do not know.

You however choose to believe in a creator and point to the world around as evidence. Again your evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny, hence why religion and belief in god is based on faith.

Faith or dishonesty, close call.

[Brad]

So he may not have been dead.

He may have never even existed

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not religious or spiritual and I don't believe in a creator but I can see how the universe might back up the idea. Here's the really short version. The universe tends towards chaos. Low entropy to high entropy. We are on a very measurable journey to high entropy. And on Earth too, as we move along time we see the same thing. Our buildings decay. Our mugs fade and it all tends towards chaos.

Except intelligent life. We fight against that and try to establish order. We take chaos and create buildings, structures, shapes, lines, form, society. We're creating low entropy. Intelligence tends towards low entropy.

The universe began in an extremely low entropy state at the big bang. Why, when the universe tends towards high entropy? Looking just at the evidence we have here on Earth, we have a possible explanation: intelligence.

[Howiee]

There were a few other things combined with that that meant he would have been stronger and in better condition than a typical victim of crucifixion. So he may not have been dead.

This is known as the 'swooning theory'. The idea that Jesus fainted, later recovered and was fine. I don't find this one convincing because the very nature and idea of crucifixion was to brutalise the victim. If that account is true, it would be like going to the electric chair and instead some dude rubbing your head with a balloon to generate an electric shock.

[PaTaito]

Thread deffo needs a title change.

[Howiee]

The evidence is you do not know.

You however choose to believe in a creator and point to the world around as evidence. Again your evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny, hence why religion and belief in god is based on faith.

Faith or dishonesty, close call.

Ok, I'm dishonest and I'm desperate for my faith to be true so I'll believe anything. And no evidence exists for anything you disagree with. And religious belief = lack of education. You win. Well played, sir.

[endo]

On which note, turns out they got the person who masterminded the attacks.

edit- in response to PaTaito, not Howiee, obvs.

[Howiee]

He may have never even existed

You're not a Jesus myther, are you? I thought you were better than that!

[Dirty Sanchez]

Ok, I'm dishonest and I'm desperate for my faith to be true so I'll believe anything. And no evidence exists for anything you disagree with. And religious belief = lack of education. You win. Well played, sir.

Misrepresentation there. I said religion had the greatest influence where education was lowest. There is evidence to back that up but you reject it.

Just as I have rejected your flimsy attempts at providing substantial evidence for your claims.

[Dirty Sanchez]

On which note, turns out they got the person who masterminded the attacks.

edit- in response to PaTaito, not Howiee, obvs.

the creator?