Europe III: April F-EU-Ls

[MartyG]

Instead of moaning about stuff, I wish everyone would get together and just get this brexit **** done with a semi decent deal slightly close to the one we were promised. The last thing we need right now is in-fighting.

Which one were we promised?

[charlesr]

The one that was going to be super easy to negotiate because the EU needs us more than we need them

Which one were we promised?

[fishbowlhead]

The one that was going to be super easy to negotiate because the EU needs us more than we need them

Seriously how nieve is everyone to even think for a second this was all going to be anything but an utter s**t show from the start? Politicians these days will do nothing, NOTHING, whatsoever unless it immediately benefits them financially.

You really think they are capable of carrying out something like article 50? They are absolutely not in anyway.

The population should be looking at criminal charges and serious prison time for all involved in
A: triggering the referendum in the first place on false pretences.
B: not having a plan if referendum went exit.
C: not having or carrying out a properly vetted plan now we have voted exit.


Politicians need actual accountability for their actions. Maybe some hard prison time to the s**t stirrers in office will get rid of the time wasters and get the country back on track to being led properly.

[MartyG]

The one that was going to be super easy to negotiate because the EU needs us more than we need them

That one doesn't exist.

[MartyG]

Here's an interesting egg fact.

One of the fun side effects of leaving the EU without a trade agreement and following WTO rules is that export / import quotas begin to apply.

The UK exports 147 million eggs to the EU per year and is unrestricted in number because quotas don't apply to us being part of the EU (they only apply to third countries).

The quota before tariffs apply is 114,669 eggs, which means, extrapolated for time across the year on those 147 million exports, the UK would use up the quota for the entire EU in 7 hours. After that a tariff of 30.40 EUR per 100 KG applies.

That means our egg exports won't be economical anymore because they'll be far more expensive to purchase in the EU. Essentially our egg farmers won't be able to export to its current major market the day after leaving the EU without a trade deal.

You probably now want to ask yourself, what other hidden quotas are going to impact on the viability of our current exports to the EU.

Other foodie things with quota limits include

Cereals
Fruits and vegetables
Wine and spirits
Sugar
Oilseeds, protein crops and rice
Hops
Seeds
Potatoes
Cotton
Bananas
Live plants and flowers
Tobacco
Milk and milk products
Beef and veal
Sheepmeat and goatmeat
Pigmeat
Poultrymeat
Honey and beekeeping

[Asura]

Politicians need to actual accountability for their actions. Maybe some hard prison time to the s**t stirrers in office will get rid of the time wasters and get the country back on track to being led properly.

I believe we need to move to this sort of system in general terms. Someone lied about that **** on the side of the bus. There was a room filled with people, a boardroom somewhere, where they worked up that figure (knowing it to be untrue, because it would be impossible to do one without the other) and decided to go with it anyway. There is someone in our government or in one of the contractors they worked with who knows, deep down, that they lied about that - and they might even be okay with that. However, it's unacceptable that we don't know who that is.

People are sick of "the bus" as an example but it's just an isolated case. The other one is Nick Clegg accepting the deputy-PM role when one of his biggest supporter-bases voted for him on the student loans thing; I can't believe how shameless the guy was. He should've faced some kind of penalty.

Our system of government is broken. No-one will ever stand up for accountability because they have to convince the people who are to be held accountable.

[MartyG]

The other one is Nick Clegg accepting the deputy-PM role when one of his biggest supporter-bases voted for him on the student loans thing; I can't believe how shameless the guy was. He should've faced some kind of penalty..

The promises made by Nick Clegg were under a Liberal Democrat government in a Liberal Democrat manifesto. There was never a Liberal Democrat government.

[Neon Ignition]

Our system of government is broken. No-one will ever stand up for accountability because they have to convince the people who are to be held accountable.

And there in lies one of the several roads that leads to the referendum. People don't trust politicians because they know they lie like rugs, so the concept of having another ruling body on top of that which is not appointed by the people or domestically tied to that nations interests is an easy fire to stoke.

[Sketcz]

Politicians need to actual accountability for their actions. Maybe some hard prison time to the s**t stirrers in office will get rid of the time wasters and get the country back on track to being led properly.

You're a big softy, Fishbowlhead. I have always openly advocated that we shopuld hang both the politicians and the bankers who **** this country up.

The news was describing the 10 year anniversary of the 2008 financial meltdown. Were any of those responsible punished? No. And who suffered? Only the common proles and workers. The bankers and politicians always have contingency plans so they never have to worry about the crap hitting the fan. Reese-Mogg is so minted the entire country could burn to the ground and he'd still have fois-gras stuck in his teeth.

Hang them for lying. Hang them all. Once half the party is swinging, I guarantee you, every other politician will be too terrified to step out of line, and only the truly dedicated would even consider stepping up to the plate to govern.

[Asura]

The promises made by Nick Clegg were under a Liberal Democrat government in a Liberal Democrat manifesto. There was never a Liberal Democrat government.

I think that's a technicality. Why go into power unless you seek to satisfy your manifesto? The manifesto is why people voted for you in the first place.

When asked by the Conservatives, the LD's answer should've been simple:

"Here's our manifesto. People voted for it. We accept going into coalition on the condition that you take it on board. Otherwise we're acting against our own voters and we find that unacceptable."

Then let the Tories go it alone with a minority government, because that's ultimately what people voted for.

[MartyG]

Not really - how can a political party enforce its manifesto in a coalition? It has to draw up compromises and that's the problem.

The issue wasn't the promises, but entering into a coalition in the first place. If anything, the worst of the Conservative party policy was held back by the LibDems whilst in coalition as demonstrable by the current executive.

[fishbowlhead]

Not really - how can a political party enforce its manifesto in a coalition? It has to draw up compromises and that's the problem.

The issue wasn't the promises, but entering into a coalition in the first place. If anything, the worst of the Conservative party policy was held back by the LibDems whilst in coalition as demonstrable by the current executive.

Shouldn't a coalition be void in the first place though? no one voted for a coalition, so how is that even allowed to stand from a legal standpoint?

[MartyG]

Because you don't vote for a political party, you vote for your MP to represent you.

[fishbowlhead]

Because you don't vote for a political party, you vote for your MP to represent you.

Err no, in a general election you vote for a particular party, there's no (do what you all want) option. You vote for a party and that party who wins is in charge, its a simple system really, yet they all decide to go against that and simply do as they please.

I am over simplifying obviously, but you get my point.

[MartyG]

Err no, in a general election you vote for a particular party, there's no (do what you all want) option. You vote for a party and that party who wins is in charge, its a simple system really, yet they all decide to go against that and simply do as they please.

I am over simplifying obviously, but you get my point.

The people on the ballot paper that you vote for may belong to a political affiliation, but in a representative democracy, you are voting for an MP to represent you and your constituency, not a political party. You will note on your ballot paper that you tick, that it doesn't just have the political affiliation listed (if that's all it had then you would be correct), it has the name of the candidate there as well.

An MP's vote in parliament may not even necessarily be along party lines as an MP has three lines along which he gives his vote on policy proposed by the government: country, constituency and party (and it should be in that order), then he may have a personal view that influences his vote.

If a political party has enough MPs elected from the various constituencies, they then go to the Queen to ask her permission to form a government.

Maybe your reason for voting for your MP of choice is the political party he belongs to, but that is not technically what you are voting for,