Europe III: April F-EU-Ls

[fishbowlhead]

‘Somewhat’ felling?!

It shows that Brexit is for the little people. Jacob Rees Mogg, that swivel eyed fascist ****, is moving his hedge fund to Ireland as well. I absolutely hate the people that have put this country in the toilet and are powerful enough to avoid the ill effects on their own pocket book.

Honestly, it’s so sad how we are self harming like this as a nation. It really gets me down in a big way.

What did you all expect to happen? Seriously? The country has been in the hands of retarded caretakers for decades who are somehow able to make loads money out of destroying things AND doing an appalling job.

There was no one in government capable or able of organising this, or able to get it sorted once the s*** hit the fan.

The public have themselves to blame for all this by voting out and believing serial liers, both ways.

Business will just go where there’s stability, the uk no longer offers that for big companies.

[Neon Ignition]

Whichever way it ultimately falls will be fascinating. If it goes through there'll be years of fallout to sift through but if they manage to overturn the decision and we end up remaining there'll be the fallout of those upset by that decision and then the whole issue of what next? It's hard to imagine the UK remaining in the EU and issues such as reform, MEP accountability, anti-federalisation sentiment etc not needing to be addressed in some meaningful way rather than brushed off by the EU like they did with Cameron which helped lead to this whole situation (let alone issues they're facing in other countries).

[Asura]

Whichever way it ultimately falls will be fascinating. If it goes through there'll be years of fallout to sift through but if they manage to overturn the decision and we end up remaining there'll be the fallout of those upset by that decision and then the whole issue of what next? It's hard to imagine the UK remaining in the EU and issues such as reform, MEP accountability, anti-federalisation sentiment etc not needing to be addressed in some meaningful way rather than brushed off by the EU like they did with Cameron which helped lead to this whole situation (let alone issues they're facing in other countries).

I just thought about this, and how it might be years before there's some kind of inquiry into how it went, and how that would take years to reach a conclusion...

Then I remembered the Chilcot Report. Did that actually result in anything? Did it ever finish? I honestly don't recall.

So no inquiries. They're obviously just a waste of money.

[fishbowlhead]

I just thought about this, and how it might be years before there's some kind of inquiry into how it went, and how that would take years to reach a conclusion...

Then I remembered the Chilcot Report. Did that actually result in anything? Did it ever finish? I honestly don't recall.

So no inquiries. They're obviously just a waste of money.

All a waste of tax payer money and everyones time.

Case in point: Blair and Iraq. Gets caught lying about the entire thing, with fabricated evidence, invades and destabilises a country causing masses of civilian casualties and ruins the entire infrastructure of Iraq for decades, maybe longer.

What happens? f*** all. Nothing. Plus he still got his nice golden parachute from a private firm after the event, thats fine though, i'm sure the little Iraq kids don't need those limbs they lost.

These clowns get REWARDED for causing chaos and ruining lives.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/25/corbyn-ally-ian-lavery-dents-labour-hopes-of-push-for-second-referendum

Senior Corbyn ally bemoans a second referendum.


Literally, one the worst case scenarios right now is a General Election. Labour needs to get its act together and drop that push

[QualityChimp]

I can actually see some good things might come out of Brexit.

What do you mean, Chaz?
I'm not trolling or arguing, I just can't see headlines to back that up.
Remain articles list all the companies leaving and laws about to be bypassed, but leave ones just seem to be "It won't be that bad" with nothing to back them up.

I worry the EU will crumble a bit due to us leaving, although brexiteers will point to it and say, look we got out just in time.

Like somebody leaving a human pyramid then claiming it was always about to collapse.

[Dogg Thang]

There is no doubt that the UK leaving will be damaging to the EU. Especially so under a No Deal situation.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/juncker-may-backstop-eu-customs-union

Not entirely sure what Junckers play is here unless he's trying to tempt her into a corner so bad that cancelling Brexit becomes the only option.

[QualityChimp]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/26/brexit-british-firms-mass-exodus-no-deal

More firms planning on quitting the UK, including Burberry and Haribo.

"UK firms plan mass exodus if May allows no-deal Brexit
Business group warns that companies are getting ready to shift operations abroad

Thousands of British companies have already triggered emergency plans to cope with a no-deal Brexit, with many gearing up to move operations abroad if the UK crashes out of the EU, according to the British Chambers of Commerce.

Before a crucial week in parliament, in which MPs will try to wrest control from Theresa May’s government in order to delay Brexit and avoid a no-deal outcome, the BCC said it believed companies that had already gone ahead with their plans represented the “tip of the iceberg” and that many of its 75,000 members were already spending vital funds to prepare for a disorderly exit.

It said that in recent days alone, it had been told that 35 firms had activated plans to move operations out of the UK, or were stockpiling goods to combat the worst effects of Brexit."

[Neon Ignition]

It's a hard one when it comes to businesses, I can imagine a fair chunk mean it but also a fair chunk are BS'ing in an attempt to steer current voting

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/27/revealed-the-mps-and-peers-receiving-millions-in-eu-farm-subsidies-cap

Guardian has a look into Peers and MP's and the cash they're pocketing from EU farming subsidies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47024450

And Boris seems to get himself back in the news simply by talking about scenarios that will never happen

[Neon Ignition]

Am I missing something?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/28/brexit-latest-news-developments-theresa-may-will-commit-to-insisting-eu-replace-backstop-say-leading-tory-brexiters-politics-live

"there is particularly interest in what is being referred to as the Graham Brady amendment, which says:

At end, add “and requires the Northern Ireland backstop to be replaced with alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border; supports leaving the European Union with a deal and would therefore support the withdrawal agreement subject to this change.”.

(Technically it should be known as the Andrew Murrison amendment, because Murrison is the MP who tabled it, but he is primarily associated with another one. For the sake of simplicity, we’ll keep calling it Brady’s.)
Downing Street has not said yet how it will instruct government MPs to vote on this amendment. If Theresa May were to formally endorse it, that would amount to the government saying it now wants to replace the backstop that it signed up to only at the end of last year. But May has admitted that there will have to be changes to the backstop for the deal to pass parliament, and if the Brady amendment were pass with a majority, she would be able to go back to Brussels and explain that this was the change necessary to get the withdrawal agreement through parliament.
This morning Brady, who as chair of the Conservative 1922 committee serves as the shop steward for Tory backbenchers, said he thought the government would support his amendment. Asked if it has government backing, Brady, who voted leave in the referendum, told the Today programme:

I hope so ... I don’t know so. The amendment was born out of a number of conversations I had with colleagues including members of the government, including the prime minister.
I had also spoken to people in the DUP too and I’m hoping that the way in which the amendment is crafted can attract that very broad support and if we can win the vote on my amendment then I think it gives the prime minister enormous firepower.

And this morning Boris Johnson, the Brexiter former foreign secretary, has used his Telegraph column (paywall) to say that May is also now committed to getting rid of the backstop. He said:

I have heard it from the lips of very senior sources in government – speaking with the authority, it is claimed, of the prime minister herself – that this country is about to seek proper binding legal change to the current lamentable withdrawal agreement.
The PM wants to get rid of the backstop; that is, she wants to change the text so as to insert either a sunset clause or a mechanism for the UK to escape without reference to the EU. She is going to fight for a freedom clause – right there in article 185 of the protocol or thereabouts – that would finally give us the keys to our own future. If she can change the backstop, then yes, we would be able to do free trade deals, and yes, we would be able to vary our regulation, and yes, the whole of the UK would be able to leave the EU – proud and intact – without leaving Northern Ireland a perpetual hostage."



Isn't this just a meaningless amendment? You can't put something like that without a specific plan in place and the EU is very clear that there is no alternative plan. Surely what they're saying is that they want a clause that would end the backstop (that they've asked for before) and the EU would never agree to as it's effectively putting a deadline on the Good Friday Agreement?

Like she'd be desperately trying to sell Ireland out as a bargaining chip which no-one will ultimately support?



At the moment, I think there's a rustle in the wind regardless of what she does or doesn't get changed. I'd wonder a lot if at this point too many MP's and the EU feel like a second referendum is getting closer to potentially becoming real and won't agree anything for fear of giving up that opportunity

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/28/brexit-latest-news-developments-theresa-may-will-commit-to-insisting-eu-replace-backstop-say-leading-tory-brexiters-politics-live

No10 has officially told the EU that May's Deal will have to be changed. Not sure why they should do anything but shrug their shoulder though. I await the inevitable 'shove off' from the EU as they wait to see what tomorrows amendments votes produce

[Dogg Thang]

I await the inevitable 'shove off' from the EU as they wait to see what tomorrows amendments votes produce

Seems that happened before you even managed to finish your post!

While I don't see the deal shifting in any big way, I still maintain that a No Deal Brexit is bad enough for Europe for them to at least open that door a little if they genuinely think they'll get a deal through. But I guess that's the thing - can any deal get through the UK MPs?

[Neon Ignition]

I imagine not, or at least not one what doesn't still force the possibility of a second referendum. On the radio yesterday one guy who called in said that extending Article 50 was effectively a given now as there wasn't time to legally implement a deal anymore, all the EU has to do is hold their line and they could force May into a second referendum (as she'll never agree a General Election) and boom, they could defuse the entire thing.

Given how the UK seems to keep trying to negotiate on Ireland (that is largely something that isn't up for negotiation), I hope the EU holds its nerve - they could win big if they play this right

[briareos_kerensky]

It's clear that most (all? ) of the forum goers think this continuous failure of the goverment to deliver is seen as a farce (or worse) no matter of Leave or Remain camps, is this reflected in the UK as a whole or are there people believing this is the right way or the goverment will be able to leave the EU on decent terms for the country?