By the sounds her desire to come back comes purely from having lost two babies, so she wants to come back to make sure the same fate doesn't meet the third. That's fine but the answer on her return would be to imprison her and remove the child from her custody, it doesn't sound like she's any less vile so it's whether she values her own 'freedom' over her child's life. She'll have to make that choice soon I guess.
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On the EU side of things, they're now even closer to passing Article 13 which will go down like the HindenburghComment
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That's what I read.Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
I think there's going to be a lot of this over the next 2-3 years, and this is just the highest profile case - families who have kids who ran off to fight at the time, who now want to come home. On the one hand you can understand a family's desire to protect their children, but they ran away and became soldiers for an enemy cause, and in many cases committed, or were an accessory to war-crimes - this can't just be "no harm no foul". Just because it happened thousands of miles away doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Then on a more pragmatic note, you're talking about asymmetric warfare. Some of these people are "genuine", i.e. they went there as kids and were deceived by false promises, and are returning now because it was impossible for them to do so up until now. There are also those of whom the fight was knocked out and they just want to live in peace.
However, there are going to be those who return, yet still harbour the views that got them to fight in the first place, and they're seething over the defeat. They'd happily run back if the opportunity arises. Lastly, there's bound to be a very small group who are returning with the specific desire to commit acts of vengeance in their home countries.
It's difficult to resolve.Last edited by Asura; 14-02-2019, 10:43.Comment
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Nice to hear, it was really looking like the end was about to hit which must have looked damned bleak considering it would have been 2,000 people screwed over so nice some get savedComment
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Todays second vote on amendments is largely meaningless but it is symbolic and so could be heavily damaging to May if she loses votes with the EU closely watching.
Currently it looks like she will lose the vote which includes an amendment that effectively begins to bring the current stalemate to an end. The road map would then build to Coopers bill in the next vote which would impact things by saying that May must have her deal pass by 27 February or her can kicking is over and Parliament will completely abandon her deal and move onto other options. Additionally, No Deal would also be officially ruled out meaning that either MP's come up with a radical new mindset approach to what realistic deal they would agree on or their only remaining options would be a second referendum or outright revoking Article 50Last edited by Neon Ignition; 14-02-2019, 13:11.Comment
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No. Anyone who could’ve been like that has been sidelined by Corbyn and his cabal. Corbyn became leader of Labour at the worst possible time...Originally posted by Dogg Thang View PostComment
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For Christ's sake, Corbyn is to meet with Barnier next week to talk about what he would like the deal to be.
You know, because in any negotiation having talks with someone who hasn't been involved at any point come and tell you what they want is bound to go down well. This will cement May's position as having zero time for anything he has to say and I suspect will be seen by much of the Labour party as a clear sign that Jeremy also plans to ignore the screams of party members and to spend the last few weeks wishing for his own unicorns and moonbeams to come true.
"Walking the Green Mile... walking the Green Mile..."Comment
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This thread title is your best yet.Comment
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I’ve been busy today and not kept up with the news. I gather, however, there’s been a vote of some sort. Can anyone explain what’s going on?Comment
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Today's vote was more one intended to grow a consensus around Brexit plans for MP's ahead of a second bigger vote at the end of the month. The idea was that they'd put forward motions to be voted on and whatever was agreed would guide the next vote where they will decide which Brexit amendments become the next rules of engagement. May aimed to try and steer MP's to start backing her failed deal for fear of crashing out the EU with no deal however instead they annihilated her for the second time.
Essentially it means that as far as the EU goes this is currently a final hurrah indicator that says there is no chance whatsoever anymore that May can salvage her deal. Therefore there's no chance of them engaging in the process any further and her authority over future negotiations and the end of the month amendments voting is effectively dead now. It also means that several planned amendments that aim to either rule out No Deal or start to pave the path to a second referendum are much more likely to succeed now. The tide is turning against her for the final time now and at the current pace she'll be lucky to survive the summer. She's in a position where she originally supported Remain and as one former minister in this link says:
She either rules out No Deal and destroys any final chance her deal may have to pass or she supports the idea of No Deal and effectively becomes a UKIP Prime Minister. The Tories are split and she's done, eyes will be on Labour as well though as over 40 of their own MPs betrayed the party line to side with the SNP's motion to delay Article 50. Corbyn is literally only a few steps behind her on the way to the door at his current rate.
Overall it's good though, it raises the chances that come 27 February MP's will at least pass amendments to stop May from delaying everything to the last possible moment in an attempt to rig support for her deal and they'll have four short weeks then to choose an alternate plan and get it sorted instead of 1-4 days.Comment
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You cannot rule out no deal - the only way to prevent it from happening if you can't get a deal is to rescind Article 50, anything else is complete nonsense. Theresa May isn't going to rescind Article 50, the EU isn't going to compromise on the backstop.
Current tracking is still on that we will crash out of the EU without a deal on 29th March.Comment
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That's why I think they're effectively just being coy with their words. Like you say, you can't rule out No Deal without effectively making an eventual revoking of Article 50 the default outcome but none of them wants to openly say "Revoke Article 50" so they sell it as ruling out No Deal instead, really - this is an MP drive to defy the referendum outcome without taking personal blame which is why the parties are collapsing.Comment
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This all reminds me of that bit of South Park when the mayor is deciding whether to allow same-sex couples to adopt, but he refuses to make a decision until a recent study is concluded, so he can point to that and insist that guides his opinion, so he's blameless. The point is made in the episode that he's an elected leader and should, y'know, lead.Originally posted by Superman Falls View PostComment
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The ERG want a no deal Brexit - that's entirely their game, that's why with every step they're putting roadblocks up. They know the EU won't compromise on the backstop and they're hoping that May won't renege on her red lines.Originally posted by Superman Falls View Post
The only thing that'll scupper their plans at the moment is everyone suddenly agreeing (yeah, right), or May going back on her word about leaving on the 29th whatever happens and rescinding Article 50 at the last minute.
Refusing to "take no deal off the table" isn't a threat to the EU that they'll suddenly fold on - they don't want it, but it will happen if we carry on following the current trajectory.
The thing is, any government that is competent enough to leave the EU, wouldn’t do it.Last edited by MartyG; 15-02-2019, 09:06.Comment
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