The Scottish Referendum III: If At First You Don't Secede

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/oct/17/jeremy-hunt-mini-budget-liz-truss-conservatives-labour-tax-uk-politics-live?page=with:block-634d416a8f085fc6682b4c0a#block-634d416a8f085fc6682b4c0a

Sturgeon makes her economic case for Scotland going independent. The case document cements that a border would be imposed between Scotland and England to meet EU regulations

It's 110 pages long so I'll be interested to see how questions from the prior referendum do or do not get answered this time

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/22/supreme-court-to-rule-second-scottish-independence-referendum

Within the hour Scotland will be told by the Supreme Court if it can run a second referendum

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/23/scottish-independence-referendum-supreme-court-scotland-pmqs-sunak-starmer-uk-politics-live-latest-news?page=with:block-637deea38f08edd1a151fe46#block-637deea38f08edd1a151fe46

The Supreme Court has unanimously dismissed Scotlands case for a second referendum

[Cassius_Smoke]

Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64647907

[Asura]

Nicola Sturgeon to resign as Scotland's first minister

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64647907

That's a surprise.

I can't begrudge any politician who served through COVID stepping down, as that must've been exhausting.

But at the same time, isn't her husband being investigated in some kind of party donations scandal? Is something about that going to come to light very soon?

[Cassius_Smoke]

That's a surprise.

I can't begrudge any politician who served through COVID stepping down, as that must've been exhausting.

But at the same time, isn't her husband being investigated in some kind of party donations scandal? Is something about that going to come to light very soon?

I didn't know that, but I can't dismiss the timing of this now.

[QualityChimp]

Wow! Imagine a politician stepping down when there are financial irregularities!
Revolutionary notion!

[Neon Ignition]

I imagine the gender recognition bill blow back she's had recently along with the increased focus on her personal life etc has generated a lot of internal pressure on her. I 100% believe she would opt to weather it out normally but the SNP are on the tip of where they're all in on her into the election campaigning or not and this is probably just to safety bubble the party and her future career in any eventuality. Personally, it feels a bit suss and I get the vibe that independence redux effort just moved further away also.

[Asura]

Honestly she's been a polarising figure to many, but I respect what she's tried to do to help trans people, a social minority - a move which proved unpopular and certainly wasn't done to be a vote-winner.

Sure, you can analyse what her administration tried to do/change and debate it all day whether it was the right approach, but I think any softening of rules on transgender topics would've generated significant ire. I strongly believe the issues people have aren't really over those technicalities; they're over the broader topic.

[Neon Ignition]

Another one that can be heavily eyeballed on the Tories, ever the advocates for turning a minority affecting issue into a media frenzy to distract from their own failings

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/feb/16/nicola-sturgeon-snp-leader-race-tories-labour-uk-politics-live?page=with:block-63edeb1a8f0892f0cefe5f8c#block-63edeb1a8f0892f0cefe5f8c

Not the best look to have a headline like that less than 24hrs after Sturgeon says she's going, it gives a whiplash impression that the SNP lack a clear agreed plan for Independence yet again. If they're going to make the play they need to be cast iron in their resolve and plan regardless of one single person's role in it.

[Asura]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...0892f0cefe5f8c
Not the best look to have a headline like that less than 24hrs after Sturgeon says she's going, it gives a whiplash impression that the SNP lack a clear agreed plan for Independence yet again. If they're going to make the play they need to be cast iron in their resolve and plan regardless of one single person's role in it.

I dunno. I mean, yeah, in political optics it's bad.

But the conversation about Scottish Independence is now taking place in a post-Brexit world, where it's been shown that running an independence campaign on the basis of concepts like national sovereignty is viable, but fraught with problems.

I'm willing to bet there are plenty of voters in Scotland who nominally support the idea of Scottish independence, but will only vote YES if there's a really good plan for specifically how that will go down, to the level of what happens with imports/exports at specific locations, precisely how they'll liaise with the EU, and the rest of it.

[Neon Ignition]

I think the SNP would do better just to be frank. If they get Independence they'll eventually get allignment or rejoining into the EU but they need to be frank about how it will take 7-10 years and their economy will make the UK look good, and there will be all the things they hate about Brexit but possibly more aggressively so. Scotland is horrifically positioned for independence despite it being understandable that it's unfair they're in the position that they're in but that level of transparency will be key in whether the SNP survives the post-Independence years or become the Tories of their nation by misleading on the outlook of it.

[Asura]

I think the SNP would do better just to be frank.

Yeah, to be clear, I would trust them to manage things better than the Tories have, even with no plan.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, politically I'd trust literally anyone over the Tories. But the biggest issue they have argument wise would be that the economic outlook for an independent Scotland is vastly worse than it was even in 2014 when their plans were terrible, the situation would also be vastly worse than Cost of Living era post-Brexit UK's is as well. I think that they face a PR battle on two fronts, economical and ideological and they're best being up front that the financial hardship and eventual silent member EU status is the price they pay to be free of UK politics. Though, the anti-Tory argument might also falter if Scottish voters face that decision post-Tories as well.