Are you happy?

[Mayhem]

My wife and I are coming to terms with the fact that we'll almost certainly never have children. She suffers from endometriosis which can affect fertility plus we didn't meet until slightly later in life so we've probably left it too late.

Sounds like myself and the other half, so I can sympathise. Hers is not bad, nor frequent, but it's kicking in like a bitch currently, and she was turning the air blue for some of today while with her. We both know her getting pregnant is probably going to be a very long shot, but who knows... I think by now we are both in a place where if it happens, brilliant, but if it does not, we can live with it. She has cats instead for now

And I agree with Wools, I'm far more concerned and placing of importance to be with someone that I want to be with until one of us dies (morbid?) rather than have it destroyed by the fact we probably can't have kids. Pressure on my brother then, and he and his fiancée aren't sure either. At least there's never been any pressure from our folks, that's a relief...

[Zaki]

Try to focus on the positives and remember that kids aren't the meaning of life, your own happiness and love is.

My Wife and I wanted kids but because of various issues, we can't. My Wife took it badly because it was from her side but after the initial shock, I realised I did not really care. We could have a chance but it could possibly jeopardise my Wife's health, and that's not on the cards in my eyes.

Although kids are great, I know friends who have divorced or broke up because of them or killed a great relationship because 1 wanted them and 1 didn't or couldn't.

After several failed relationships and girlfriends, I realised how important my Wife is. She is the reason I want to have fun, the reason why I have fun and coming home each night to cuddle her and talk about life, **** and make each other laugh, that's the meaning of life in my book: Love. Finding someone who gets you and you get them.

This is a wonderful uplifting post Thanks wools!

**** kids

But this may need to be worded differently

[JazzFunk]

I think I am happy-mad.

I ALWAYS think about death, the randomness and alien-ness of life.

But I truly realise how rare this unique chaos is now let's enjoy it as much as we can, *while* we can. No half-steppin', even in pain life is real and bristles on all spiky, like, it's not always bad

I'm pissed, hurrah!!!!!

[JazzFunk]

Happy as futch I bought a 4-pack of Bic GripRoller pens from Poundland yesterday, I been making art with them pens, I drew a weird demon like that Basket Case guy and bobbed it on FB and I'll be embarrassed in the morning but hey ho and onwards and upwards.

[fishbowlhead]

My wife and I are coming to terms with the fact that we'll almost certainly never have children. She suffers from endometriosis which can affect fertility plus we didn't meet until slightly later in life so we've probably left it too late.

We both always wanted to have a family more than anything so it's kinda heartbreaking. It's on our minds almost constantly and I can feel us both descending into depression. I think the hardest thing is the feeling that life has suddenly become purposeless. I now most people who have kids dream of things that that we take for granted (like, you know, sleep, free time and having money) but it all seems a bit soulless and empty.

In every other way we both couldn't be happier. I love my job (although it can be stressful at times) we've got a nice house, with plenty of friends and family around us and we genuinely love each other. It's just this one issue that hangs over us like a black cloud and feels like it wants to consume us.

I think we're going to look into counselling as the issue is not going to go away. Hopefully that will help us get some perspective because things could certainly be a lot worse.

Adopt? Millions of children on the planet that need a great home and loving parents.

[Neon Ignition]

If we couldn't have had kids we'd have gone the adoption route. We talked about it quite a bit as SFJr1 took over two and half years of trying to actually happen and the monthly disappointment can be a real gut kicker as time goes on. The first and foremost line of thinking though needs to be that if you don't have any that you're enough for each other without them. Even with kids they grow up and move away, it begins with you both and should end with you both too so if that's not enough now it never will be. Once you have that foundation established it makes you personal concerns about having kids easier to deal with.

If adoption is something you'd both consider I'd think of a timeline you're happy with whereby you give yourselves X amount of time of trying and if it doesn't happen go down that route instead. You can still keep trying and who knows, you may end up with one both ways in the end.

Without doubt though, even if there were no medical conditions, worrying about it definitely reduces the chances. Have a plan, and try to not place too much pressure on yourselves in the meantime.

[Wools]

This is a wonderful uplifting post Thanks wools!

But this may need to be worded differently

That's fair!

Adopt? Millions of children on the planet that need a great home and loving parents.

As soon as we started to tell close family and friends that we probably won't have kids, that was their first reaction too.

Once you're told that several barriers are in place to not have kids the 2 next options are IVF and adoption. IVF has destroyed a few relationships of loved one's I know and it's not hard to see why. When sex is one of the deep connectors you have as a couple, making every session to be about conception, it obviously takes a toll and it's not difficult to see why that's a dark path to go down.

Finally you have adoption. The amount of friends who've suggested that to us is surprising and for us, not an option. Coming to that realisation has been a bit of a journey in my head, the idea of raising a child who isn't your own has been difficult to accept in my head and just something I could not do. I don't believe that makes me a bad individual, just an honest one, but it's made me appreciate men and women who raise children who aren't their own. They are stronger people than me, to want kids so badly, you want to raise those who are clearly deserving of a loving home, when their blood parents abandoned them or died.

Another hurdle you have to jump over is people perceptions of you. Telling people you can't have kids makes people jump immediately to adoption. When you say you don't want to adopt, people ask why and act almost horrified. One friend in particular took a stand on me saying I don't want to and when I said would you adopt, she said well I don't have to as I can have kids.

That point sticks in my mind. The idea that the whole point of life is to reproduce. It's the path of least resistance but for me, if me and my Wife can't have kids without the possibility of losing my wife during surgery, then I'm happy to accept that and move on. If you want to be an RAF Pilot but are prone to blackouts, then sorry but you can't. If you want to climb Mount Everest but have no arms or legs, then sorry you probably can't.

I really see it like that in my head, we can't have kids then I'm happy to roll with it. Society dictates that you're odd in that view though and we've brushed up against people who are probably being nice, but come across as patronising "That's so sad, I couldn't continue living without my kids." Yes, that's because you had them. We've not going to so won't have that heartache. And let's not talk about those who think it's the greatest miracle in life, no you just spunked up a chuff and got a chavvie!

The good thing to take from this it's made me and my Wife's relationship even stronger and with that knowledge in mind, we can plan for the future without kids. So more holidays, more good life, more time with friends, family and we can peruse our interests. Swings and roundabouts, although we do spoil our nieces rotten!

[QualityChimp]

Life is always greener on the other side.

I think that's something people forget a lot.

Wools, you shouldn't feel bad about not adopting, it's not for everyone.
We were trying for quite some time for both our kids and looked at the adoption route before our second. It actually startled me that it's very different to how a lot of people imagine, thinking there's a special door at the back of the hospital delivering new babies to willing adopters.
Quite often it's children that are a lot older being rescued from unloving and usually abusive homes. That's a very different scenario and one I doubt all those preachy people had any idea about. Like you, I also found a new respect for anyone who is an adoptive parent in such tough circumstances.

I love my kids, but I look on enviously at my wife's cousin who has no children and goes somewhere amazing every year, has a second house and has a fantastic social life.

Every time I get stressed with them, I do my best to remember how hard it was to have them both and how tough it must be for those who can't and are constantly reminded about it from people asking when they're having kids.

[Neon Ignition]

It's good that you know adoption isn't for you. It's a complicated process in itself and the last thing you want is to start down that journey if it's not right for you both.

So, a dog?

[Wools]

Glad to hear you and your partner managed to have kids [MENTION=10111]QualityChimp[/MENTION] I know some couples on that path now.

It's not like me and my Wife are loaded but we do alright and although there's no question we would love kids, we've accepted it's a small possibility now. So over the past year, we've decided to move to a new build, spend some cash on some luxuries and some long dormant dreams of mine (Own a sports car, write a book to self publish) are now starting to materialise.

Yes, kids would be epic but going through this trauma has made me look at life differently. We're here for fun, not for long has become a bit of a mantra of mine now. People who have kids, quite rightfully, talk about them as the most precious thing but legacy, passing on a torch, what does that really mean? I don't want to go too Zen Monkey on you all here, but one of the foundations of religion is the comfort of the afterlife for both yourself and previously lost loved ones. When the religious lies crumble down, what's next? Living for your kids is brilliant and a sacrifice but what about the now?

I find myself pondering on that question since the news and although it's sad to not have kids, it's made me focus on my loves and passions more and find peace with the idea of when I die, I will have no son or daughter to remember me. Although that sounds sad, after several generations die, you won't be remembered anyway. That realisation has made me happy on who I am and cast a bit of scorn on people who have kids and use the old cliche of legacy, passing down, whatever.

As long as you find happiness in yourself, that's the important part.

[QualityChimp]

Basically, [MENTION=680]Wools[/MENTION], we had a load of sex!

However, I totally agree that when you're trying and you're having sex for procreation purposes only, it changes things.
Like one of those Man Vs. Food eating challenges!

Both times we were successful was actually when we weren't trying, rather than following a flowchart of fertility.
Life's funny like that.

I think the only thing I'd say is to be aware of saving up for a decent pension and potential care when you get older, not that having kids will guarantee they'll look after you!

When we had no kids, I really struggled with the constant reminders. Well-meaning co-workers asking when we'll hear the pitter-patter of tiny feet or "Hey, let's go cheer ourselves up by seeing that new Disney Pixar film, "Up"".

[BigDeadFreak]

You're not alone. We're trying to save up for a potential 2 rounds of IVF. $15000/time is not something to be laughed at. I always knew I had a strange kinship with the old guy from Up, at least I know why now.

My wife and I are doing the same although we're probably only going for one round as that's all we can afford. Also, her health means it's so unlikely to work that a second round isn't really worth it.

I hope the IVF works out for you both, it's a pretty emotionally draining process. The fact that it's all so clinical can be hard to deal with. We went for a consultation recently and it felt like we were talking to a bank manager or an estate agent.

[BigDeadFreak]

Sounds like myself and the other half, so I can sympathise. Hers is not bad, nor frequent, but it's kicking in like a bitch currently, and she was turning the air blue for some of today while with her.

My wife's endo isn't as bad as some women's but it's bad enough so whatever your wife's going through I know it will be pretty horrible. It feels like some kind of curse and I'm amazed that she can get on with her life knowing that it's hanging over her every month. To think that some women experience that level of pain every day is just mind blowing.

The cruel irony is that having kids can be the best way to 'cure' endometriosis but it can also reduce the likelihood of conceiving.

[BigDeadFreak]

@Wools Thank you for your responses, it's helped me clarify a few things.

I think you're right about the effect that all this stuff can have on your sex life. It can easily turn it into a mechanical, soulless process. I'm almost looking forward to getting IVF out of the way so that things can go back to normal and become spontaneous again rather than determined by some blood iPad app!

People are very quick to tell you to adopt, aren't they? I know they're trying to be helpful but it's not as straightforward as people seem to think. Aside from anything, a lot of kids who are put up for adoption these days have experienced some pretty serious trauma which has left them very scarred. I've heard it described as parenting plus. I do quite a stressful job so the thought of coming home to a challenging child is something I'd struggle with. It's a huge commitment and you can't exactly change your mind if it turns out to be too difficult.

I find myself pondering on that question since the news and although it's sad to not have kids, it's made me focus on my loves and passions more and find peace with the idea of when I die, I will have no son or daughter to remember me. Although that sounds sad, after several generations die, you won't be remembered anyway.

Strange as it may seem, that sentiment has helped me put things into perspective. One of the things I've found hardest about this whole process is the feeling that without kids life is a bit pointless. However, as you say, no one will remember me in a couple of generations anyway so why get hung up on it.

Also, if I have to choose between a mountain of smelly nappies and a Subaru BRZ then maybe doing without kids isn't so bad after all

[Wools]

@Wools Thank you for your responses, it's helped me clarify a few things.

Strange as it may seem, that sentiment has helped me put things into perspective. One of the things I've found hardest about this whole process is the feeling that without kids life is a bit pointless. However, as you say, no one will remember me in a couple of generations anyway so why get hung up on it.

Also, if I have to choose between a mountain of smelly nappies and a Subaru BRZ then maybe doing without kids isn't so bad after all

Thanks, hope I helped!

I'm going off on one but years ago, I used to have serious social anxiety and one of the conditions defining holds it had over me was worrying what others thought of me. I've now recovered and not worrying about pleasing others for the smallest things has got me through it.

I feel that's helped me with my perspective of life. I worry about what everyone thinks of me and try to please them all the time, i'm neglecting myself. The old adage; Love yourself holds so much weight but is easy to say, another to put into practise.

Now I probably won't have kids, I stand back at hearing so many families saying they live for their kids, worried about legacy, worried about them, I think do they ever consider themselves or their partner? I understand you are their guardian but loving yourself has to rightfully be put on hold for your kids. When they have kids, they become the next focus and before you know it, you're living just for them. That's fair and expected, but being removed from that situation, it's both sad and so overwhelmingly liberating.

I've meet the love of my life, we adore one another, both love our jobs, do well financially and have lots of dreams and desires. Having the rest of our lives to focus on that? ****ing priceless!