Little Things That Irk You VII: Seething Pains

[randombs]

Pippette u-leak

Come, now. I’m sure prinny has girth.

[capcom_suicide]

There's no "forgotten how to do it", it's all profit related. That's why you can get 4 bedroom homes that are on a plot of what used to be terraced house plot back in the 30s and 40s. Couldn't swing a silverfish, let alone a cat!

My old place in the sarf-Landahn suburbs was built in 84-85 and the thermal block they used for inner walls is like polystyrene. Stick a size 6 drill into it you end up with a size 12 hole!

Having said that I live in Denmark now and they have a propensity to use wood for almost everything... which looks nice, but it's a low-lying wetland and so we're transported back to 1970s Britain, having to re-paint the wood every two or three years... What's it like in Norway, @capcom_suicide?

Wood wood wood. Rot paint fix Rot paint fix...

[vanpeebles]

Chisel-me-do.

[gunrock]

[MENTION=324]capcom_suicide[/MENTION]: oh dear, that's what I feared!

[gunrock]

Irk:
It seems that I have reached the stage in my life where I'm seen at work as 'a dinosaur'.
I'm 49 and have been a programmer (professionally) for 31 years. In that time, I have been a game programmer in the 32-bit era, a dotcom era website backend developer and for the last 15 years a developer/development manager for investment banks in front-office positions. 13 of those years were for two of the world's top-five investment banks. Whilst doing all this, I wanted to keep learning, so I studied and got an degree from the Open University.
After all that experience, I am sure that I don't know everything and I have stuff to learn. I am glad if there's something I don't know and someone else does, as it means I can learn something new...
...yet somehow, I am working with a bunch of developers in a remote office who question incessantly and deride all of my work. It's always wrong or not done "the right way". Some of the criticisms of course, are valid and I'm happy to take on suggestions and make those changes. However, they attack both the work I do and have started making personal attacks when I try to get them to be specific about the concepts or approaches that they feel are wrong. Mostly, it seems to be a "not-invented-here" syndrome; the reasons for their objections seem to be centered around potential benefits of some design principle that would be true, if for invented requirements that the business haven't asked for. I outrank them and I have more years experience in investment banking alone, than any of them have been working.
Don't get me wrong, they are talented developers and when we meet in person, everything is cordial. Just trying to get code reviews completed and code merged, is next to impossible (or more effort than I'm willing to expend, anyway).
There are questionable decisions and approaches in their work, too, but I try to overlook the "I wouldn't have done it that way" instinct and look at their work from the perspective of does this do what it's supposed to, does it serve the immediate and near term goals, and is it readable and maintainable. Of course, within that I'll consider the suitability of the data structures being used, etc. But I've never said, " 'ere mate, that's all wrong".

tl;dr - gunrock's a sad old dinosaur who should be turned into leather and glue.

[fishbowlhead]

Or, just put your foot down and man up.

If your above them and have seniority, then show it. Knock those childish office politics out them and get them on the job at hand.

If they behave like children, treat them as such.

[gunrock]

If this were London, I'd have shut their **** down, however, I'm now working in Denmark where direct confrontation and decision making is shied-away from, in favour of discussing everything over and over until everyone has reached agreement of given up the will to live and relinquishes.
Until you have lived here, it's hard to emphasise how the culture is soooo different to the UK (which is both good and bad).
Also, I outrank them but in line with Nordic style of company structure (which is much flatter than UK or US companies), I'm not their boss - they are colleagues.

[fishbowlhead]

If this were London, I'd have shut their **** down, however, I'm now working in Denmark where direct confrontation and decision making is shied-away from, in favour of discussing everything over and over until everyone has reached agreement of given up the will to live and relinquishes.
Until you have lived here, it's hard to emphasise how the culture is soooo different to the UK (which is both good and bad).
Also, I outrank them but in line with Nordic style of company structure (which is much flatter than UK or US companies), I'm not their boss - they are colleagues.

That’s a really weird way of doing things and will just lead to nothing being decided or acted upon, incorrect decision or otherwise. Eventually you have to cock up, learn and move on.

[randombs]

If this were London, I'd have shut their **** down, however, I'm now working in Denmark where direct confrontation and decision making is shied-away from, in favour of discussing everything over and over until everyone has reached agreement of given up the will to live and relinquishes.
Until you have lived here, it's hard to emphasise how the culture is soooo different to the UK (which is both good and bad).
Also, I outrank them but in line with Nordic style of company structure (which is much flatter than UK or US companies), I'm not their boss - they are colleagues.

But it sounds like they’re being confrontational with you.

If Denmark is so different, what would happen if you treated them in the same manner? Would they get pissy about it?

[Dogg Thang]

Use their own strategies against them. Explain in a very labourious and time-consuming way why your way is better, giving many examples from your career peppered with far too many details for anyone to care about and just keep going until they give in. And if that doesn't work, nod and agree with them and remark that, yes, their way is the way the Swedes or Norwegians do it. That will soon change their minds.

[teddymeow]

Went shopping today with just Harry as Nancy was asleep.

Was waiting to park in a parent bay and a car was reversing out of one so I did my observations, put the car in reverse because all was clear and slowly edged backwards.

Next thing I know there's a man and woman appearing from the rear passenger side and the guy is mouthing "wanker" at me.

I parked up and, as he was getting his trolley, politely advised him that maybe say testing across a carpark where you can see cars manouvering isn't the best idea.

Especially when there are pedestrian crossings dotted around he could have used.

[gunrock]

But it sounds like they’re being confrontational with you.

If Denmark is so different, what would happen if you treated them in the same manner? Would they get pissy about it?

Yeah, well to make matters more culturally complicated the remote office is in one of the Eastern European countries and it seems those guys have no problem in being abrasive. However, my management has no idea how to deal with this situation as it's so far out if their sphere of understanding.

In fact, when I joined the firm a couple of years ago, the boss said the reason I was there is because the previous bloke couldn't stand up to their comments and he was looking for someone who could and he believed that was me. So he was aware of an issue but his non-confrontational Nordic niceness didn't allow him to tackle it head on!

I've tried, but the issue is that they outnumber developers in Denmark, so we have to include them in our code review process and the other developers (Danes) don't back each other up because of the non-confrontational thing. My new manager is even less able to act, she says she recognises there is an issue but doesn't think it can be solved!
At my old employer, (London office of a US bank), I would have them out of their jobs or towing the line, but you need management backup and that's not happening...

...thus after 2.5 years, I'm leaving. It pains me to say that, 'cos where I'm from you never run from bullies or it just gets worse (and as a kid, my Dad would threaten to hit me, if I ever ran home crying), but that strategy is not applicable for office environments (really? ) and leaves me feeling powerless and trapped. Its impinging on my family life, so I gotta go

[JazzFunk]

Uuuuggghhhhh. MetalJesusRocks vid about PS2 games that didn't make it to the US, first game's He-Man, second is Yakuza Fury. He's making out they're "cool" when they're ****ING APPALLING.

UGGHHHHHH. MetalJesusRocks. And his horrible bald mate.

UUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHH

[dvdx2]

Uuuuggghhhhh. MetalJesusRocks vid about PS2 games that didn't make it to the US, first game's He-Man, second is Yakuza Fury. He's making out they're "cool" when they're ****ING APPALLING.

UGGHHHHHH. MetalJesusRocks. And his horrible bald mate.

UUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHH

Lol - how about a drinking quest with this selection of nerds....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SkUYH26rU

[dvdx2]

Few hot emo / rawk chicks in there for you jazz....

PIZZA!