Europe IV: The Final Hour

[Asura]

Interesting to see all these stories about queues,

That's people clutching at straws, though I admire their enthusiasm. There are queues every time. There were queues back when we voted in 2015, and we were in a safe constituency in a comparatively cooler election.

[Cepp]

I'm not sure what time it starts but John Bercow will be on Sky News for the duration of the election night coverage. They have a live Youtube channel as well if you're not near a TV.

[prinnysquad]

Just voted. My lot won’t win. Too many people either:

- Want Brexit Done (it won’t be).
- Want another five years of being rogered up the grinner.
- Hate someone so much that they will vote for a lying racist instead (because they’ve been told to by the media).

Ah well.

[Shoju]

The IMF are about as economically right wing as you can get. If there are that many more economists who oppose Labour’s spending plans, where are they? I mean, actual expert economists, not hacks. Wolf has a background in economics, but offers nothing but a sour aversion to anything bar a riff on the status quo.

Not all the signatories of the letter are left leaning. One of them vehemently opposed their plans at the last election.

The IFS figures are interesting. But I always say that manifestos are aspirational. If Labour achieve one third of their ideas, it’s a triumph. Any change is worth pursuing, because frankly, the current orthodox dogma is rank. The country has stagnated. Radical rethinks are needed concerning long term investments and infrastructure development. Cutting your way to prosperity has not worked at all.

The Lib Dems advocate yet more austerity with their nonsensical ‘spend within your means’ mantra. Household economics cannot be applied to something as complex as national economics. It won’t work and it hasn’t worked. The Tories have led an ideological crusade to relocate wealth within society, that even the IMF said has been a terrible policy.

I agree that they won’t win. The press are too powerful, as are the social media lying machines utilised by the party of wealth. The ATROCIOUS record of the Tories has been lost, masked by Brexit soundbites. It’s why they repeat that cretinous phrase every single time they appear in public. They have nothing to celebrate from the last 9 years, so they hide behind ‘Get Brexit Done.’ It’s incredible that the Right attack Labour for their ‘magic money tree’ and ‘magic wand’ economic strategy, yet subscribe to the precise same thing themselves. ‘Get Brexit Done at it’ll all be ok. Our power will be unleashed! Unchained from the constraints of Europe, we shall stand tall and flourish!’ Yeah, it’s almost like waving a magic wand.

Had this election not been about Brexit, then the Tories would be more visibly threatened. Their tenure has been absolutely terrible, and not one of them seems to be able to say how austerity was worthwhile.

Did the IMF back Labour's huge increase in spending and what there spending on or did they say it's a good time to borrow more to invest?

I don't know how many economists there are and what percentage of them 163 are. I'd like to know what all the rest think. Most of the opinions I've seen on the FT, IFS, the economist and the CBI have been quite critical to scathing. I linked a FT article from a range of economists on expectations based on who got a majority and that also painted them in a bad light. One of the issues they have is with nationalization and it's cost as well as the anti business stance. What was the service like when these industries were last state run?

You don't need anyone else to criticize Corbyn when a senior member of his own party calls him a threat to national security. When it comes to Brexit Corbyn is at heart a Brexiteer that's biting his lip due to those around him. It's no wonder he won't take a position on the subject despite his party imploring him to. I don't know if he really put his heart into the referendum at that crucial time.

[Dogg Thang]

Labour will just ask the Tories where they would get the money to pay off Arlene Foster again or where they’d find the money to wage another war. Simples, as beloved former Conservative PM May would say.

[Cepp]

Did the IMF back Labour's huge increase in spending and what there spending on or did they say it's a good time to borrow more to invest?

I don't know how many economists there are and what percentage of them 163 are. I'd like to know what all the rest think. Most of the opinions I've seen on the FT, IFS, the economist and the CBI have been quite critical to scathing. I linked a FT article from a range of economists on expectations based on who got a majority and that also painted them in a bad light. One of the issues they have is with nationalization and it's cost as well as the anti business stance. What was the service like when these industries were last state run?

You don't need anyone else to criticize Corbyn when a senior member of his own party calls him a threat to national security. When it comes to Brexit Corbyn is at heart a Brexiteer that's biting his lip due to those around him. It's no wonder he won't take a position on the subject despite his party imploring him to. I don't know if he really put his heart into the referendum at that crucial time.

Who do you think people should vote for then? And why?

[Shoju]

Who do you think people should vote for then? And why?

Honestly I don't know. I have serious worries about both main sides and the next in line is the Lib Dems.

[Cepp]

Honestly I don't know. I have serious worries about both main sides and the next in line is the Lib Dems.

The number one priority; imo anyway, is getting the Tory's out. That means voting labour where I am but if I was in a lib dem/con marginal I'd go for the lib dems. If I was in Scotland, it'd be the snp, a lib dem stronghold? lib dems...etc. I can't stand the lib dems btw, but they'd have my vote if it was needed to stop the torys in my area.

It's worth noting that if your disabled or black, you don't have the luxury of only having to worry what a future government might do to you, when the current government has spent the last decade doing everything they can to hurt, "deport" and kill you.

For all the worry about what labour could do in government, we have a ten year track record for the cons and it's horrific. I don't want more of that, for anyone.

[MartyG]

Exit poll showing a big Tory win :/

Conservatives: 368

Labour: 191

SNP: 55

Liberal Democrats: 13

Plaid Cymru: 3

Greens: 1

Brexit party: 0

Others: 22

Conservative majority: 86

Still, will be interesting to see Ruth Davidson swim naked in Loch Ness: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/11/ruth-...eats-11695908/

[Cepp]

Well, we're ****ed.

[Asura]

Exit poll showing a big Tory win :/

Conservatives: 368

Labour: 191

Conservative majority: 86

Yeah, it really shows how you just can't use the internet as a guide. From the sites and places I frequent, you'd think no-one was voting Tory, but it turns out it's the vast majority of people.

EDIT: I just don't know what to make of it. I'm seeing stuff online; posters up with genuine lies. The BBC with that weird image of Corbyn next to a Soviet landmark. BoJo, who surely no-one will stand up for as a good person, being the leader of a political party. It's like the world's gone nuts and I don't know what to say or do. I've literally never voted for the winning part in an election and I'm in my mid-30s, and it isn't like I've been voting for the Greens or Loonies.

[Dogg Thang]

So it’s the technologically illiterate. They can’t be completely illiterate or they wouldn’t be able to read the Daily Mail headlines.

[Neon Ignition]

So then...

Chaotic second wave of Brexit noise and voter rage as it refuses to die away in 2020
Economic recession and rapid increase in unemployment rates in 2021
Corruption investigations into the tories by 2022
'New-New' Labour launched in 2023
Decade+ reign of Labour from 2024

Then reset the cycle presumably. I swear to god, the Tory smugness will be unbearable in the short term but the public discontent in the long term when Brexit remains an issue will make them rue the day.

[Cepp]

The disease that is Brexit trumps all.

Barry Gardiner's face on Sky right now... says it all.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/dec/12/general-election-2019-uk-live-labour-tories-corbyn-boris-johnson-results-exit-poll

It's all loose talk at the moment but already questions and speculation about Corbyn stepping down are being thrown up.